The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 139 · 5 months ago

139. Building Customer-Centric Innovation Into Your Company Culture w/ Dennis Geelen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you can combine customer-centricity and innovation as a cultural mindset pervasive throughout your company, then you’ve really got a recipe for long-term success.

In this episode, I interview Dennis Geelen, Founder at Zero In and author of The Zero In Formula, about building customer-centric innovation into the company's cultural mindset.

Dennis and I also talked about:

- The 3 main components of customer experience

- Why indifference, not hate, is the opposite of love

- All things CCI and how it affects culture

- Calculating the lifetime value of your customers

- Reducing hunger and raising community love

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

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If you have in different customers,they have no high positive or negative emotion towards you and your brand asthey're just completely indifferent towards you. You got a huge problem. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast, here'syour host Ethan, but if you want to build a brand that customers crave andif you want to build a company that people are passionate to work for, youmust annihilate indifference. That's the position of today's guest, whose acustomer experience and innovation consultant author and speaker he's thefounder of zero in a Boutique, consulting firm that helpsorganizations become as customer centric and innovative as possible. Hisbook. The zero in formula lays out the path and draws on several of myfavorite influences, including the customer centricity playbook from PeterFader and Sarah Toms, the experience economy from Ja, pine and Jim Gilmore,and the jobs to be done framework from Clayton Christianson prior to startinghis own consultant. Today's guest held management and leadership positions ina non profit, an insurance company and an enterprise software company DennisGelen. Welcome to the customer experience podcast yeah thanks much forhaving met, and this is great yeah. I really enjoyed the book and- and I lookforward to getting into it, there's so many awesome teams in there. It'sobviously customer experience when we're talking customer, centricity andinnovation. We really are talking about experience and experience design. Thereare also themes of human center design and design thinking in there. So I I'mreally excited where this is going to go, but before we even get into cx atany level or customer centricity or innovation, you were involved in thecoort lakes food source for several years. I would love for you, becauseit's a passion of mine as well you're locally in Colorado Springs with theKarenha Food Bank for Southern Colorado. Talk about the importance of reducinghunger in our communities. So important. I mean there's such a a a wide rage ofeconomic factors of people's places and where they're at in their jobs insociety and the most basic needs of food and shelter, I mean how can wedeny those to people so a real passion of mine to be involved in the foodsource for many years and just see that we were delivering that basic need ofpeople within the community awesome. You know when I, when I listento podcast when I host podcast, when I get to read books like yours and haveconversations with the people whose minds and experiences generated theentire thing. You know we're obviously operating somewhere higher up, Maslohierarchy of needs and it's so important to constantly stay, groundedin the basic needs of hours that have been met. I know might have been metthrough good fortune of you know, being born in a relatively well developed nation, seewhat we will about the states or Canada where you are, and to parents who areable to provide for me in an like. It's a just. I agree. It's just such anabsolute basic need and I think the more we can do to a stay mindful of it,but then be more importantly, act in order to help others is awesome. So Iappreciate all the work that you did there and your shared values there. Somoving into kind of the formal part of the conversation customer experienceswhere we always start on this show. I've asked this question to well over ahundred experts such as yourself and I love seeing where the the answersconverted and diverge from one another. So for you, when I say customerexperience Dennis what does that mean to you? Ah It's funny. You should saythat, because you've asked a hundred people and you've probably got ahundred slightly different answers...

...right, and I think I mentioned that inthe book as well. If you, Google, custer customer experience, you'regoing to get a very wide variety of answers, but to me it boils down tothree main different definitions. So it's just the definition of the workexperience itself when you experience something you're having some sort ofemotional attachment with something you've. You've had an experience rightand to me, that's something we want to create for our customers, so you havethat definition and then you've got well. What was that interaction likethe individual transaction was that a good experience was that a badexperience right and then you've got well. What's the experience thatcustomer has with your brand and total? What's that? What's that journey liketo me, those are the three main different definitions of customerexperience I like to Honion, and I really like to try and put themtogether to say: Okay for each individual transaction for the overalljourney they have with our brannd. How are we creating that feeling thatresonate with them? And that's what I I like to try and to dive into with mybusiness clients yeah residence is a key word there. It's the thing! Thatkind of sticks with you is kind of the deep peace so that, when thoughts cometo mind or stories are told like it's, what is echoing or what is resonant orwhat is residual from all of those interactions. So you've worked incompanies large and small, you've consulted companies, large and small,when you're, either operating in an organization or consulting inorganization. How do you think about customer experience in terms ofoperational zing it like? Do you have a thought or a preference or a frameworkaround? Should we have a dedicated role or team or function, or should this bemore of an ethos and a cultural quality within an organization? Do you thinkwhat do you think about that? I think when it comes to both customerexperience and innovation, and those are two things that I kind of combinein the book. I fully believe it works way better when it is a company widecultural mind set now. Having said that, that is very difficult to achieve, andI think that's why a lot of companies go with dedicated roles or in the caseof innovation, Innovation Labs. It's easier. Just to get a few peopletogether and tell them this is their job, but the effectiveness of it, Ibelieve, is way more rewarding and the results are way better. If you can doit across the entire organization really well said. I like, though I likethe way you broke that down. I hadn't thought about how much easier it is tojust say: okay, you three go do this than it is to try to say: okay,everybody. This is how we're thinking about all of our work now trio. So in the Intro I use the wordindifference, which is the word. You used it's a really powerful word and Ithink it is a big danger, but I'd love to hear from you. Why is indifference?A primary enemy and, or you know, a horrible pitfall to be avoided, yeah.Well, the way I like to put it even is, if you ask somebody, what's theopposite of love, the natural first answer typically is hate right were theopposite of. Love is hate, but I believe, love and hate are actuallyextremely similar right. They're, both very powerful you've got a strongemotional tie to something one just happens to be a positive emotional tie,one's a negative emotional tie, but they're very similar in that they're,highly energized, highly highly emotional. I think the opposite ofhighly energized, highly emotional is, I don't really have any feeling towardsit and that's indifference and to me, if you have in different customers, they have no high positive or negativeemotion towards you and your brand. It's they're just completelyindifferent towards you. You got a huge problem, you're just an option outthere and they have no emotional tie to...

...you. Why are they picking you if theyanswer? Is Price well, you're already down the wrong road right, but I think it also happens internally.If you have employees that are just indifferent about their job, they don'tlove it. They don't hate it. It's just a job. I just at it's, okay boy: You donot have a culture that is really going to help. Take you to that next level tocreate passionate customers. If you don't have passionate employees, so Ithink that's the big problem. The big challenge that all businesses reallyneed to be focusing on is annihilating indifference, as you said, are at thetop in their customers and the repos yeah I mean. Obviously we would love amuch higher love rate than I hate rate, but hate or you know really negativecustomer feedback or whatever gives us that Opportunity A to learn andunderstand because at least they at least they care period, they're, notindifferent, and at least they care enough to express it to us, and so youknow gives us a chance to learn, grow and really it's not. I mean give you aquick example. You know when I was the only marketer or one of the onlymarketers here at Boma. I've been here for almost a decade now, which is crazywhen we were a much smaller team. All the emails came for me, newsletterspecial offers, promotions, et CETERA and, of course, some people didn't wantdidn't expect whatever they were upset to maybe get that email or that videoemail, and so they would reply and they'd be really angry. Like get me offthis list kind of thing, how did you get my address? Well, you started afree trial with us, so you know that's a part of part of that situation. Iwould to be communicate with you in any case, in some case of very foul andaggressive language, and so what I would always reply with a personalvideo email, hey, my name is Ethan. I work here a bombum wanted to let youknow. I got your reply. I've manually unsubscribed you personally in both ofthe systems that we use to send emails, Hey. I know that it doesn't. Do me anygood and it doesn't do you any goode to send you emails. You don't want to getjust want to. Let you know I hear you got you taken care of hope. You have agreat day and if you ever want to do what I'm doing now, which just send apersonal video just reach back out I'd be happy to re subscribe. You that'swhat we do. Your bombum take care. I have a great day and at least one thirdof the time I would get these replies from people that are like. Oh, my gosh.Thank you. So much re subscribe me right now, like you know not all thetime, but when someone's kind enough to get you in conversation, that's anopportunity to do something, and if, if you can diffuse the situation humanizeit let people feel hurt and appreciate, and let them know that some resolutionsbeen made. It can often turn to love. What have you seen anywhere in thatcategory, like turning what seems and feels in the moment, like an extremenegative to a to a positive, because there sure a lot of people hurt you inthat last response and thought hate. Oh Gosh, I really don't want to be hated,no for sure, but at least let, as you said at least you know about it and atleast there's some sort of care there, and I love your response and yeah thatthe video message is showing in its personalized and engaging our grade. SoI love that example. But how do you do that with somebody who's indifferent?You don't even know right, I mean you can see. Did somebody open my email ornot, and maybe that's about it, but did they read it? Did they like it? Whatwas their feeling? You don't know? So at least you know with the the peoplethat are expressing this anger or backwards, you have a chance to respondto it. As for examples I mean we see it all the time with with customers. Ithink the new trend is people. Turning tosocial media, and Oh, I just had this terribleexperience with company x y said they did this. They did that and you can seethe way that different companies respond, there's ones that will nowengage in a very negative way back and it becomes this argument open to thepublic and not a great way, regardless...

...of whether you think you're, right orwhatever, not a great way of handling it, but yeah acknowledging diffusingand then trying to take it off line and have a personal conversation eitherthrough video, like you did, or through a phone call. Now you've got anopportunity to turn that person into a fan, and I think that the real goodcompanies that understand that they leverage those moments, yeah reallygood. So, let's get into your specialty in particular, it is obviously thematicand present throughout the entire book. CCI is language you use for a customer,centric innovation. So let's break down those two main confont for you. What iscustomer, centricity and then separately in afterward? What isinnovation m? Yeah? That's that's really where you have to start becauseagain, those are too big buzz words and they could have several different. Youknow, explanations or definitions if you were to google them so for me,customer centric means you invest as a company in tools and strategies tocontinuously understand your customers, why they buy our products and services.Who are these people? What are their trends? What are their likes, whattheir dislikes? This isn't a one time thing that you do or it's somethingthat you just put on one person's plate and say: Go figure this out as acompany. This is who you are you're investing in these things, because you don't have a customer. You don'thave a company right. You understand that so you invest in these, but it'sthe same thing with innovation. You Invest in strategies and tools and bestpractices so that you create this widespread culture of let's find a newand better way to serve our customers right. No more of this! This is how wedo it around here or hey. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Let's create andinvest in ways to get our people thinking differently and to me, if youcan create those two cultures, those two mind sets and put them together.Now you've really got a recipe for long term. Success Yeah, really good the when I think about, especially that theway that you define customer centricity and the you know what it means inpractice. I think about. Typically when we have a question that we need theanswer to or a problem that we want to solve, or we want to inform a decisionthat we're making will go, undertake an initiative like that, and it's thisacute specific thing. So I like the way that you describe the way it'soperation ized. Why do you think more organizations don't have eithercustomer centricity or innovation as a as a constant, regular investment inFrank? Is My observation? Even fair, have you observed the same thing thatit's typically done on an as needed basis kind of tasked out? Maybe thecross functional team kind of a thing like do you feel like that's the statusquo in your own experience, and why do you think that's the case perhaps yeah?I completely agree that that is the status quote, and my theory on that-and I think I touch on this in the book a bit as well- is, I think, inherentlymost businesses that make it, and I talk about that as well like there's, alarge percentage of companies that start up and don't even make it pastyear, one two or three, those ones probably were not very customer,centric or innovative right, but the ones that do make it they probably wereinherently in the beginning, very customer, centric and very innovative.That's why they had something new. That's why they were able to createthis customer base. That's why people went to them and their business. Theyunderstood me- and this was a new way of serving me. I like this company, butover time I think businesses start to turn their eyes inward. In thebeginning, it's what's a problem I can solve. How can I do it differently? Howcan I be different than my competitors, so you got to be watching yourcustomers, a Goito, be watching your competitors, but then success tots tohappen, and it's like, oh great. How do...

...we scale? What are our members thisquarter? What new features can we add, and you start turning your eyes inwardand you start losing that focus that you have on your customers and it'sthis this natural progression. I think that a lot of companies as they growthey go through this and they go from an outward facing company into anintered facing one and they have to relearn what got them to where theywere in the first place, really good. I actually have a note here with someoneto read a passage from the book and I think it's going to summarize where youand I just were rather than tea up another part of the conversation,although it my and I enjoy this terms, such as customer satisfaction, customerservice engagement, loyalty and customer experience get usedhaphazardly. Some businesses implement a few strategies here or there to checkthe box in these categories. They then proudly proclaim that they are acustomer, centric company, and so what we have. There is kind of what what youwere just talking about, which is you know a few things here or there checkthe box, and then we proclaim that this is done, and now we can, you know,reflect internally on ourselves because part of Now our vision of ourselves orunderstanding of ourselves or our misperceptions of ourselves is that weare this thing. I want to go on to another element ofsuccessful companies that you just touched on there again with a few linesfrom from your own book, which, for folks listening again, is called zeroand formula. Successful companies will have a mission or purpose to serveothers. Here's another one, have the ability to know, understand andempathize, with their current and future customers and hammeredthroughout was this quote. This is one way you express to be expressed in manyways throughout is the real power is knowing these people, and so a couplethings I want to emphasize here for you to kind of expound upon our you did usethe word empathy or empathize, knowing these people like really knowing thesepeople and understanding these people current and future, and so what thatreminded me of is- and you also address this in the book a little bit. Itreminds me o the principles of Human Center design, where the first step, nomatter whose philosophy or guide book you subscribe to, whether it's a leaderlike Ido or one of the other many people that advance the idea of humancenter design. It always starts with this deep knowledge and intimateunderstanding this immersion, with the people you're designing with and fortalk about these dynamics, because there's really some human language inthere there's a service orientation. There's empathy et ce M yeah and it's about getting in the mind, set andthe heart set of your customers. What are they thinking and what are theyfeeling and the best way to do? That is to be able to think and feel thosethings along with them. Now, a lot of larger corporations will hireresearcher consulting firms to gather all kinds of data that will tell themthis. Not all. If you listen to Steve Jobs and what he would proclaim overthe years. It's A. I really want to show them what they need. The researchis going to tell me that, but by feeling it and seeing it andexperiencing it myself, I will now show them what they need, and that was kindof the story around the ithon different approach. But it's still the same idea.It's. What do these people really need and what are they feeling either? It'sresearch based or its experience based, but it's based in getting to know whatthey think, what they feel, what they need, but their frustrations are andempathizing with them, and if you can't even do that, probably the easiestthing or the thing that I tell some of my smaller clients is become one ofyour customers actually go through the process ofbeing a customer of your own company, see what that feels like that is going to open up your eyes morethan anything else right there yeah...

...that it. Actually, you led right intowhere I wanted to go next to other quote from your book, so you worked ina very large software company called open text. If I, if I remembercorrectly, you ran the professional services division or were a leaderwithin it. So here's a quote about that experience at open text about becominga customer of Furon Company. Although we knew the system well from atechnology perspective, we did not have the full understanding of the systemfrom the users perspective, at least not until we became users ourselves. Ireally like that, because an there's, an interesting tension herethat I'd love for you to just address, I don't think you can resolve it. Idon't think any of us can resolve is certainly not in the context of thisconversation, but you know this tension that you introduced with Steve Jobs,which is when we can truly understand people. I think a lot of people thinkokay need to interview customers and then give them what they tell us. Wewant. We you offer that Steve Jobs, idea, you're, saying well, no we'regoing to fully understand them and then anticipate their future needs anddesign for the future needs. I guess skating to where the PUCK is going asopposed to just giving them the Puck, because they said they wanted it loonyreference by the way. Sure, of course I grew up in Michigan. I wish it camewith Canadian, a duel, citizenship. It doesn't, but it's close and then herethis idea of taking it the step further is not only are we going to. You know,look at survey, data and read reviews and go, do interviews and spend timewith them. Maybe even if we have the resources- or it makes sense to like doin home, research projects were observing how people are behaving andinteracting and whatever. But this step that you and your team took to use theproduct yourselves to gain new understanding. I'd love for you to talkabout those different ways of understanding and then the differentways of kind of designing and innovating, either to the customer,stated need, or perhaps even to the future M A and it's quite a thing in asoftware company, because you have these software engineers and you havethese QA analysts that design and develop the features and test thefeatures in a way that they think they would be used. So you've already gotthis bias, or this assumption that we built it. This is how you would use it.So this is how we're going to test it, and this is how we're going to try andbreak it. And then you see a customer using it and they bring these feature.Requests back or these enhancement requests, and you think that people arecrazy. Why are they even using it like that? It's because that's the waywithin their environment that it would make sense for them to use it, but youcan't understand it until you start using it yourself and you put yourselfin their shoes. So that's where I encourage the companies as much aspossible, be a customer of your own, your product, ar out your own service,but you're right. It is this dichotomy. It's this tension between customerswant to use it this way, but hey we designed it this way just stop using itthe way you're using it and use it the way we designed it, but when we mightor might put you into a different bucket like well you're, not using itlike we wanted to so maybe you're, not an ideal customer. And yes, if you askhim like I love this thing, it's amazing it changed my world like. Iwant to keep using it in his way. You didn't intend yeah yeah and how manydifferent products or services veeved that way, because the company allowedit to like that's where it can really take off man. We didn't even designthis thing to be used like that, but look at how people are using it. Let'sgo in that direction versus the come on guys get in line. This is how wedesigned it, so you really have to have that that mind set was in the companyto see where the customers taking your product yeah. It's been an absolute joy.I've been here for again almost a decade, and I was I was one of our mostprolific users like all along, but especially before, like when we werereally small in the beginning. You know our platform was kind of like a malechamp or a constant contact, but with video integrated deeply in it, and so Iused it for a lot of our marketing. You...

...know when we had. You know five hundredcustomers. We were suitable for that till we outgrew and had to move intosomething like a hub spot and at the same time we were trying to discoverwho we were and what we were about, and so I was constantly in the blog and insocial post and in presentations sharing examples of what customers weredoing, and so this, I feel, really privileged. You know, and I felt thisas I was reading your book. I was like oh good, like a whole bunch of us likeat least half the company uses the product daily, and some of us who've,been with it for years, have kind of been along for that evolution, some ofus in different seat sales, marketing customer success in particular, and now,probably once we developed like a proper product management and productdevelopment like tie on to the the actual software engineering from afunctional standpoint, you know we've all had to teach what other customersat this whenever you're innovating, I feel like people really want to know.What does this actually look like? What are other people doing, especially withvideo like show me what other people are doing, and so I felt privileged youlike. Okay, we've never been to like crazy off track here, like if Denniscame in. He'd certainly have some guidance for us, but but I don't thinkhe would say. Okay, you know a square one here, because because we've checkedsome of those boxes and has been really really helpful, talk about the mostvaluable customer I this was. You know what I think when most people hercustomer Centricity, they think about it. In a you know, we put the customer.First, we talk to our customers, we listen to our customers because youcited the customer centricity playbook from Peter Fader and and Sarah Tom's atWharton. You know you're, obviously a tuned to this idea of lifetime value asa primary criteria or the primary criteria for your best customer. Youknow it's essentially who's worth the most and I think implied in that- and Ilove your take on it implied in that is they're giving us the most becausewe're giving them the most kind of a blend in there. It's not just they'rethe best customer because they're giving us the most money, but alsothey're, giving us the most money, because they're getting the most valuefrom what we provide and because of all of those things are the best costor.How do you think about lifetime value best customer, and maybe what are acouple steps when you engage with companies that don't really have thisin their active thought process? You know what are a couple first steps forgoing down that road of making some of these identifications yeah customerlifetime value is one of those things that boy when you really start to applyit. It unlocks so many different ideas and thoughts and ways that you can gowith your customers. A couple of points there one I think most companies haveassumptions on who are the best types of customers for their products orservice either going into this type of market or goingafter this type of customer is going to be most profitable for us. Is it let'sfind out and then the other thing that customer lifetime value helps you with?Is this idea that listen? You can't be everything to everybody right if you're, trying to pleaseeveryone, you're, probably just watering down and not really pleasinganybody, or at least not really overly resonating with anybody. So who shouldyou be resonating with so this is where a calculating lifetime value of yourcustomers really helps. It helps to really see who are our actual mostvaluable customers. Were we right or did we have some really bad assumptionsthere and in when we do find out that? Yes, these types of customers over hereare the ones that end up being the most valuable for our company. Now, whatdoes that mean? How does that change our messaging and our marketing and theway we deliver the experience we give? If that's the type of customers thatare most valuable to our company, then we should be tailoring ourselves alittle more towards them. You can't be everything for everybody, so, let'sdesign the experience for this type of customer yeah. I totally agree aboutall things to all people being and it's that's actually been a very bigchallenge for us and we think about making it easy to use video messages inplace of faceless, typed out text,...

...pretty much anyone work in theirprofessional capacity to benefit from this, but that doesn't mean that we canbuild a profitable business, trying to sell it to anybody who will buy it andit's interesting to these tensions like the lifetime value peace. You know whatI remember doing a dive and I'd love your take on this. I was doing a diversby industry, which is a little bit crude in terms of looking at ourdatabase, but you know I was looking at industry in this particular industryhad the most number of videos per account, which is something I alwayslike to see from my seat, which is you know for me. You look at there's allthis product usage data and people use it different ways. But to me, if you'resending a lot of videos, it means you're generally doing more personalvideos than kind of mass blast videos which I always like to see. So thisindustry, like dramatically over indexed. You know, as I cut it furtherand further like at least five hundred videos per count, at least a thousandvideos per account. You know they over indexed over index relative to theirshare of the population at large. At the same time, our cf was doing asimilar dive and is like horrible conversion rates, horrible churn rates.This is our. This is our worst industry. If we look just at at the customerbased by Industry and I'm looking at the same group thing like they're great,and do you agree with me that the C fo is probably right when it comes to thelong to I? Is this industry, bad or good, really high usage at some level,but bad conversion rates bad turn rateslike bad lifetime value, I would say, based on the current model, then yes,the C Fois, probably correct, but what that entail tells you is boy theyreally see value in our product and is there something we can do? Should wechange our model so that we're now more monetize based on this type of customeror it's just as an anomaly and know our models correct and we need to chase adifferent type of customer of, but it opens up those types of conversationswhich you wouldn't have had before right so right it. It really gets youlooking at your business differently, yeah, absolutely so I'm going to moveto another like so for folks were listening. I could take this in so manydirections, because there's so many really interesting frameworks andorganizing principles, for example the five characteristics for individuals inan organization to support customer centric innovation which, by the way,look a lot like our core values at Bomba same number and they like theyalmost match up. There are five principles of innovation, understandingyour customers question your assumptions and biases, implementdiversity and inclusion, be agile and develop prototypes pilots and MPs getfeedback and learn fast. I really appreciate kind of like the light quickINERAT process there, but I think we'll go deeper into come. The fivecharacteristics to improve atmosphere. First of all, atmosphere you tied tolike there was part of the one of your three definitions of customerexperience. I love for you to first to elaborate a little bit on atmosphereand then there's an acronym here. It's super surpriser suspense, unique,personalized, engaging and then the most difficult one the hardest one tooperational, ize repeatable. So anything you want to share on superoverall, a little bit of qualification or characterization of atmosphere,which I think gets to kind of. This may be difficult to measure emotionallyresonant like what it feels like to be with you. What it feels like to be yourcustomer, what it feels like to be your employee, etcetera and then why isrepeatable so difficult? You like tree questions and one youguys. You got it yeah. So we'll start with with atmosphere. In general I mean.Typically, companies are either selling a productor a service, or both there are some businesses that are purely selling anexperience, but most are selling a product or service or some sort ofcombination of the two, and what you...

...want to do is enhance your product orservice so that you've got an atmosphere around that that says Whoa.That was a great experience. The atmosphere of working with that companyto purchase that product or service felt great. That's the atmosphere thatyou create. It's not just. Did you give good Happy Quick Service? That's theservice side. What was the atmosphere you created around that and that'swhere that acronym of Super I use to really help drive home to my clients.What should this atmosphere look like? So here's some guide lines, the SU P Eand R, but then we have to work together to find out what does thismean for Your Business Right? How you surprise or delight yourcustomers could look very different than how an airline does it for herhour, restaurant desert or a e, and it should look very different depending onthe product or service that you have. So what should that be? And then whatis your unique identifier? How are you different from your competitors,because, if you're not again, why are people buying from you and what Ireally like to tell people here is different is better than better. Ifyou're, just claiming that hey, we have the world's Best Cup of coffee. Well,anybody can claim that. Are we just? We have the world's greatest chiropractorsat at our place. Well, I'm sure the one down the street says the same thingright. How are you different? How are you unique? That's, what's reallyimportant to customers right and then personalize engaging- and you know youguys really get this with the videos, the personalized, engaging videos, rapeto people and that's a product that you sell. That really resonate with people.But then, as you say, how do you make this consistent across each individualtransaction or across each phase of the life cycle? There is a lot of training there's a lot of communication,and this is where, if you go back to our our discussion at the beginning ofthis episode, this is why it can't be a person's job, because a person can't beinvolved in every interaction at every phase of the customer life cycle. Ithas to be a culture and everybody has to buy in, and everybody has to get itand that's why a customer success manager on themselves cannot do that.That's why an innovation lab on its own cannot create a culture of innovation.It has to be company wide, really good. Any you know before we do one of myfavorite parts of the conversation is there anything that we didn't coverthat you think it's really important for people to know or understand,either from the book or from your experience, at large kind of that tiesinto the conversation anywhere that I didn't take this that you think isworth including. I think the only thing I would want to add is is on both sidesof the fence, customer centric and innovative. It doesn't happen byaccident. It needs intention and I a plan right. People don't buy yourproducts of services, they buy what your products or services can do forthem. So you need to be continually investing in. Why are people wantingthese types of products and services? Who are these people? What are theydoing? What are the trends what's going on out there and you have to invest inthat as a company and then the same thing on the innovation side, it's gotto be intentional. You can't just get people in a room every once in a whileand say Kay give me your best ideas. It's got to be. What are the ways tounlock those ideas? What are the proven principles and practices to get themost unique and creative ideas out of our heads, because they're there werejust typically not that good at getting them out so invest in those tools ofpractices. It doesn't happen by accident, great button on that and forfolks who enjoyed this conversation with Dennis about the zero in formulaabout customer centricity and about innovation. As regards the experienceitself, the greatest differentiator we have available to us in business,probably going forward indefinitely,...

...then you probably enjoyed some of ourconversation about lifetime value, which takes me to episode. Thirty sixof this podcast, which was with Sarah Toms one of the CO authors of thecustomer centre city, playbook she's. Also the CO founder and ExecutiveDirector of Wharton Interactive at the Wharton School at pen, and we call that one, thefinancial side of C X, which customers should you invest in right, and so thisidea of being. We have limited time. We have limited resources, we have limitedstaff. Who should we be investing in whose ideas whose development, whosebenefit? Should we be investing in in lifetime, values the guide theirs? Thatwas episode? Thirty six with Sarah Toms and then more recently episode. Sixtythree with David Mirman, Scott best selling author of more than ten booksand the one that we talked about in that conversation was Fanara. Creatingfans through human connection is what we called that episode in this ideathat a human orientation, this idea of putting people first, true, immersion,building community understanding the people that were working with and forin order to serve them better is a precursor of course, to revenue, it'salso a precursor to lifetime value and, ideally, profitability. If you can, youcan structure everything in the right way and so really enjoyed that kind ofthat that one it was something I enjoyed about the book Dennis is thatthis blend of practical, this blend of frame works? I think he spoke to it.Well, I think people who have spent this time together with us see thepractical, functional operational side of things, but also recognized some ofthe intangible stuff. Like some of the I mean you mentioned it to, you talkedabout heart sand minds, which is why I thought of David Merman, Scott, thebecause there's some intangibles in there that we know are really importantto our success, but we can't put them on a spreadsheet and so doesn't mean weshould ignore them exactly in fact, understanding themeven deeper is probably where we need to go rather than ignoring them right,yeah. So before I let you go Dennis. I've really enjoyed this, but I alwayslike to give people two opportunity actually three, but the first two are achance for you to think or mention someone. Who's had a positive impact onyour life or your career and the second a nater a shout out to accompany your abrand that you appreciate for the experience they deliver for you as acustomer or in your language, the atmosphere that they create aroundtheir product or service yeah. So when it comes to people to think threepeople would come to mind right up off the top of my head. One would be mywife Cindy, extremely supportive in this venture. To start up my ownconsulting company and really I my cheer leader, but to people that surprisingly, I have found to be reallygood mentors and I'm able to connect with it and share ideas and storieswith one would be Charles, green, go author of the trusted adviser and thenanother one O be Shep. Hi Can happen to reach eck to him and he's been soaccommodating read my book gave it a great review and he's been open totrading different ideas with me, and it just went to show me boy. You neverknow until you ask there's so many great willing, helpful people out there,so all three of them have been instrumental for me. That is absolutelyamazing. I've had Charles Green on the podcast. He was somewhere in the first,probably twenty or twenty five episodes. We obviously talked a lot aboutbuilding trust chip has been on only once, although I have them coming outagain later this year, and you are now the third person to mention him in thismoment. What an awesome I mean when you think about the work that we do. Thereason that we do it I mean my gosh. If three people were to mention me in thismoment, my work is done. I love what you shared about. SHAP he's just suchan awesome, dude and Stacy Sherman referred to him. Dan Ginghis referredto him and what a legacy O for a person to leavethat that in this moment, where you can...

...think anyone in the world for the impact that they've had on yourlife or your career. Of course, a lot of people go to the people closest tothem. Like your wife, I've had that answer many times, but just the youknow of all the people that he would be the one to come to bind now three timesthe only person that's happened to so any that's awesome or quite a testament,yeah yeah it is it really is. I mean I, it's awesome, I'm going to share thatwith them today by video email. How about a company that you appreciatesure? Well, the one that comes to mind right off the bat would be there's alocal company. It's a health food kind of fast food,restaurant. All fresh fuel and I got to know the owners a bit over the lastyear, or so they read my book. I've interviewed them by video. Their storyis just amazing, but they're, just their love for the community and thenthe response that the community has given back to them is just a testamentbecause they have actually moved and grown during the pandemic, and it justgoes to show like when you are customer centric. When you build thoserelationships and your innovative and Yooung some risk and thinking outsideof the box man, it pays off. I really like the way you describe that thiskind of given received dynamic that there's obviously sincerity therethey're not just like. I know how we can make a whole bunch of money. Let'scapitalize on this trend, TOR to health food like they're, obviously passionateabout it, they're sincere in that and that's something that people can feelin those interactions and their responding in kind and what a testamentto innovation to be a thriving local restaurant over the past. You know,twelve to eighteen months, Le Wild Awso Dennis. How can people follow up withyou? Obviously, if they're listening at this point, they enjoyed theconversation they might want to connect with you on linked in or get the bookor check out your consultant. Where are some places you would send people youknow Linton would be the the social network where I'm probably active themost so yeah. I definitely feel free to follow or or connect with me there, I'mLindon, I love to meet New People and network or there's the website W W W D,zero dash an dacier and the zero is spelled out so zero dash in Dat SaAwesome. He is Dennis Gelin. Last name is Bell: Gee Lin can find him on Linkin.My name is Ethan Bute last name is spelled, be ut. You could find me outlinked in. I appreciate you so much for listening, and I appreciate now Dennisfor spending this time with us and for taking the time to organize yourthoughts in a book yeah thanks, so much Ethan, clear communication, humanconnection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of addingvideo to the messages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just alittle guidance to pick up the official book. Rehumanize your business, howpersonal videos, accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn morein order today, at bombance book, that's B, O M B Bomb Com buck thanksfor listening to the customer experience. podcast remember the singlemost important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a betterexperience for your customers, continue learning the latest strategies andtactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visitbomboost t.

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