The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 151 · 3 months ago

151. Creating Holistic and Immersive Experiences w/ Mathew Sweezey


Moving forward, nearly every experience is going to be hybrid: both physical and virtual. We’ll need to provide a hybrid experience for our employees as well as our customers.

In the third episode of our Human-Centered Connection expert series, Steve Pacinelli and I interview Mathew Sweezey, Director of Market Strategy at Salesforce, about internal marketing, the immersive experience, and employee experience.

Mathew talked with us about:

- What’s missing from the equation of experience

- How to craft hybrid experiences

- Why internal marketing should be your next big focus

- How to focus on creating immersive employee experiences

- What managers can do to create a great experience

Here are some links to resources we mentioned:

- Mathew Sweezey on LinkedIn



- Salesforce Futures Lab

- Patagonia

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Play or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog. Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Customer Experience Podcast in your favorite podcast player.

As we think about immersive, i hopethat human aspect stays and i think that's much more cultural than it istechnological. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast, here'syour host eath en beaute, hey it's ethen and we're doing something alittle bit different this summer here on the podcast, my longtime friend andteam member bombum c mo my coauthor on rehumanize, your business, my guesthere on episode, six steve pasinelli is now a co host as well, and one of thereasons, why is we co authored a second book called human, so communication?It's releasing this october on fast company press. You can learn a lot moreabout. It will be talking a lot more about it, but for that book we engagedeleven expert friends of ours to contribute, and so together, steve andi are hosting them in customer experience. Conversations steve who dowe have with us? This week, yeah today we have matthew, sweezy and, if you'rea long time listener to or even a short time listener to the customerexperience podcast, you can bank on one thing that ethen provides a stellarintro to every single guest that comes on the show and matthew has been on thecustomer experience podcast before. If you were to have listened to thatepisode, you would have heard about matthews myriad of roles at sales force.You would have heard about the owns part owner of er berry called even tide.You would have heard about him offering two separate books and one of them thecontext marketing revolution, which is one of my favorite books that i readlast year absolutely awesome and you would have heard about his amazingpodcast of electronic propaganda society. So i'm not going to go throughall those items in death. You can listen to the previous episode. I wantto tell you about why we decided to have matthew to ask him to be a part ofhuman center communication, our new upcoming book, and, if you note matthewor you, follow him online, you know one thing as well that he is a master ofexperiences and no matter what he does. Whether you checked out the electronicpropaganda society, which is an award winning podcast, you would have heard apodcast that was done, unlike any other podcast, that i've heard beforeepisodic with music. In the background, it was more of a story and less of apodcast matthew. I don't know if you remember, but you actually gave apresentation for bombumba and eighteen to our marketing team as well, and itis something that so many team members still talk about. You know to this daybecause you created a human, a customer experience. You know for us and theknowledge that you imparted on us and everything that you do from your linkedin post and how much you give there. We were so excited to invite matthew tonot only be a part of the show but, of course be a part of the upcoming book,and so that's the best intro i can give you know i'm trying to follow themaster here ethan. So what are we going to talk abouttoday in the book you're going to hear a lot about matthew, talking aboutcustomer experience and a lot about the context marketing framework? Today wewant to focus more on the employee experience here and we want to focus onnot only a poly experience, but the use of video throughout that experience aswell. Where can video be most effective and communicating with fellow employeesand communicating more clearly and more effectively, and we didn't want to dojust a rehash of the content that you're going to read in the upcomingbook or of the video interview that you had that you would have access to ifyou signed up for or purchase the...

...upcoming book ahead of time, whichwe'll talk about later, we want to do something a little bit more tan gentle,so welcome to the show matthew, sorry that was a long intro, but i'm justexcited to have you here. I'm glad to be here thanks for having me yeah, sowe're going to do on this one we're going to do what we always do before weget into ex before we go inside sales force a little bit. I think everybodyknows the name, but they don't really know the company like in detail like aneight year nine year, employee you would but we'll start where we alwaysstart, which is customer experience when i say that to you, what does thatmean a thousand things? It means so many different things.That's the hard part you know, depending on how you define it as anorganization really to depends on what it means, what you do with ittraditionally. Customer experience in the modern definition for mostorganizations means post sale. So it means like that's the organization thatowns it post sale. I would prefer people think about that in terms of theholistic journey of everything. Is the customer experience whether they areprospect, whether they're a buyer, whether they're a customer, that'sstill an experience that needs to be consistent in holistic, but ah there'sa thousand things and just and then there's so many little fun topics underit, so lots of stuff cool. In your view, i think i know where you stand on this,but i really enjoy asking as a follow up in your recommendation or preferencewhat you would prefer to see from organizations. Is it better as a roletitle or a team like a specific responsibility, or do you prefer cx tobe treated as a kind of a transcendent cultural quality or an ethos of thecompany? What it thoughts you have there? Definitely the latter any timeyou sallow something you have a problem specifically when that thing needs tobe a part of every moment that you produce. So i mean one of the bigthings that we're talking about and trying to help people understand rightnow. Is this notion of l a simple question: do you have a brand standard?I'm sure you do. Everyone does and i'm sure, every experience that yourorganization creates has to fit within that brand standard mean it's got tohave this font. It's got to have this color, it's going to have this thematictheme for us. That's these characters bears and and mountain goats and lots other trail blazing icons. Then you, when i ask the flip question, which isin a world of experiences: do you have an experienced guide and if every touchpoint isn't experience, the question then becomes well then, if it's onlyowned by one department, it really can't be that holistic. So it needs tobe much bigger. It needs to be a part of the ethos of the organization and itneeds to have a functional tactical guide. Just like you have a brandguideline, you should have something like a brand o s or experienceguideline love it and it seems like gosh. You could really blend those two,because someone needs to create that guide and kind of teach it in forcethat i would imagine they'd be like a long term project. Do you know anycompanies that have kind of undertaken an effort like that? I mean: there'slots in various different ways and organizations that have done that. Imean i'm pretty familiar with brando, as through a company called big, whichis rennie used to run that had had a digital for wide and kennedy. He does alot of work with that these days, yeah there's just a lot of differentorganizations that do that. One organization, specifically that is doneand more more tactical, an experience in terms of an experience guideline.They really added it to the customer journey map that was phillips, so agood be to be example. They actually took and they did two things. So we cantalk about this in a second first office. They had a line, they had thecustomer journey and then that mapped out and then they added two lines belowthat line below that first line was what is the employee experience in thismoment? What do we want to be designing for? For that then? The second was:what is the experience guidelines so if we then start to decentralize and haveteams orchestrate in these moments what is their guiding principles, and thatwas then a line to that map as well? Really smart, i remember you, i thinkyou were involved with medic. I've had a couple of the med cx crew on the show,scott mc corkell and on an taratan in their ceo and their ash. What is anonstitle? He runs all product in death. I think chief product officer, and ithink you did a piece with them about outcomes versus experiences. How do youregard the relationship between those two like in my mind, i feel like likeoutcome is part of the experience, but...

...i know they could be treated. Sewe hadto take a step back. This might take a second to get through all right. Sogoing back into the middle of two thousand and twenty me and a colleaguehare mange asked a question which was: how has covil changed yourorganizations idea of experience, so we sat down and talked to a lot ofdifferent organizations and that really kind of bubbled up this theme, whichwas we started hearing over and over and over in these interviews. That mpsis no longer our north star metric. We are now focused on the orchestratingoutcomes and we have a new metric called time to bat. It's not any newmetric, it's the new north star metric for a lot of organizations. Now theseare hyper progressive organizations right. These are companies that havebeen focused on experience for upwards of six years and when i say focused onexperience, i don't need in a paper tiger way right. I don't mean that theygave somebody the title of experience, but never gave them a budget or a teamor authority. This is full executive support and sponsorship for moving anentire organization into an experiential world step, one thathappened like on average anywhere between three and six years ago now.They've said we moved past that and we're now focusing on outcomes, andthat's really what kind of spurred that research with the medics team, becausethey're really focused on outcomes as well. In fact, they've created aplatform to help orchestra outcomes, and so you know when we start to thinkabout this. Here's, the really big quote that i heard from that researchthat really sparked off that project. With me, cx talking to a chief customerofficer, they said we have happy customers with great experiences leaveall the time we have unhappy customers with bad experiences. Stay. Thedifferences are the outcomes that they receive, and i think this is what hasbeen missing from this equation of experience. It's it's not experiencefor experience sake, because an experience that doesn't lead to thedesired outcome is for not because it doesn't matter because it doesn't helpthe person accomplish their goal. The flip is that when we think ofexperiences in specifically the be to be context and most context, a betterexperience is something that helps the person achieve the goal in a moreefficient manner right. So it's you know whether i want to you could applythat to any logic, whether it's a sporting event or it's a tool that youhave to utilize or it's a product. You have to interface with. If i have agoal and i can get that goal and that outcome more efficiently or better thensaid better experience, i'm happier- and i stay a customer longer, so thosetwo things have to be interconnected. It was that disconnect that didn'tnecessarily, it wasn't really well articulated it's a dust statement, butnow what we're talking about is organizations actually taking action onthis and re organizing and doing lots of radical things. We're talking aboutradical new, go to market strateg. He says a result, talking about outcomesand experiences, one of the things that you mentioned when we were interviewingyou for the book or a merci experiences, and whether we're talking about like arr vr or just something that's more immersive in general. What companieshave you seen before currently who are currently creating awesome, immersiveexperiences that actually lead to customer outcomes? It's a that's a bigquestion like what specifically are people doing and who is it? I think theeasier answers just to talk about as we think about this future of what isexperienced and what is immersive, but first step. It's just to realize thateverything we do is going to be higher bid, moving forward being they'll, be acombination of physical and virtual. So if we start there, then we answer. Thenext question is what are than the three keys of those hybrid experiencesof those virtual experiences or immersive experiences pick whicheverterm you want to use it's going to be agency, so the individuals are going tohave agency over that moment. So, if we think about this and you look at theworld of what people are doing where people are going, i just did the mathreal quickly in the back of a napkin working on a project like twentyminutes to go before i go on. This call: do you know in two thousand and twentytwitch had four times as many views as the top ten cable channels combined ona month? No, i did not know that a right, then.The second thing is to look at what agency a human has on twitch right.They have the agency to interface with the actual producer. They have theagency to communicate with all the...

...other people on screen and real timeright. Then you start looking at all these other types of things that havehappened right. So look at mine craps, a great example to super easy classicexample. But as we see the past year, there have been dozens of new worldswhere people go in and they don't just go in and play the game they createtheir own world to then play their own game. So it's complete agency over theplatform itself right. Then you start looking at all these other aspects. Youstart looking at virtual clothes right so now we start to see that there areclothing lines that are selling virtual close. These clothes are not meant tobe produced in physical world. They are literally and physically only designedto be shown on a screen for you and your virtual space, and they are beingpaid for with real dollars right and they are radically crazy outfits right.So when you start to think about this, that step one is as well. We thendesign these worlds. We must make sure that we are allowing people to haveagency over those moments, the greater agency, the greater engagement right,so the more agency you give someone the more engagement you will be able todrive from it. The second is in these experiences must be multidimensionalright, so hybrid is a really easy, just two dimensions, physical and virtual.But when you start to then ask these other questions, such as how manypeople are listening to this right now, just take a look around you and see howmany other devices are right there in front of you and what is happening onthose other devices right now right. So there's a multi dimension that we haveto start thinking about in terms of these virtual experiences and then thethird thing is unique value. When you then have another experience, it has tohave a value that is unique. That's differentiated from the other thingthat it was prior. So good example. If we then start to say that we're goingto have virtual and hybrid sporting events, the virtual and hybrid eventhas to have a value that is uncapable of being achieved inside the physicalspace right. So you have to have a unique value. It can't just be a simplereproduction of the broadcast. We've been doing that for years. You knowwhat we're now seeing is. If you have the ability to then give them a uniquevalue, simply easy thought right. Broadcast typically have one stream.What happens if you give people ten streams and allow them to pick andshoes and be their own producers right, like there's lots of really easyconcepts of this thing can be applied to so, rather than saying who's doingit. Well, i would say think about those three key things when you're designingfor those immersive experiences, make sure that you give people agency makesure that you're accounting for multiple dimensions and make sure thatyou're delivering some type of a unique value. In that moment that is notavailable in other moments, gosh just dumping that down really quickly. It'si mean it's really. It's this blending of production and consumption. You knowi used to think about my own behavior is like i would just consume somethingi would read something i would watch something i would listen to somethingwhatever or on the other hand, i would be producing something, but this likethis vision that you're drawing this immersive experience is just thismashing of production and consumption, where i am the producer of the gamethat i am watching and i'm actively makes so interesting. Sorry, steep! Oh,no! No, that's all right! It's funny! We were having a conversation i getyesterday or the day before, even talking about matthew and how everytime that you chat with him, you learn something, and it's like right off. Thebat like i like that was just awesome. Thank you so much for for the detailedexplanation, owing to change gears just a little bit, though, because eeveryone knows sales force, everyone on the planet now sales force, but hedon't really know about sales force. Why don't you give us a bit of abackground on your current role at future labs? What that looks like whatyou're doing there? What you're responsible for yeah so recently islike a couple weeks ago now part er in the future lab, so we've taken a lot ofthe future of marketing work that have been doing for a long time and we'veactually officially merged that into the futures lap. So the the futures labfor those that may not know was something that was created by peterschwartzen lynn, car others and peter before had run a company called gb. Aglobal business networks he's one of...

...the pioneers of scenario planning. Oneof the leading futures of the world is a simple way to just think about peterreal quickly. If you've ever seen, war games, minority report or her all ofthose future realities look the way they do because steven picked up thephone and called peter to ask him what the future looked like. So that's wherepeter plays so mark brings peter over and ask peter to make sales force toplace where people go to see the future, and so that was his directive, and sothat's what we're continuing to do it? The futures lab so really looking atcreating a merse, ive experiences that help people see the future and howbusinesses and consumers connect in new ways. In those worlds. Talk about thosei'm going to jump right back on a mercie experiences again, because it'stoo fascinating of a topic talk about those experiences in internal marketingand internal marketing. I don't, we said not been asked thatquestion before, so it may take a second to come up with an answer whenwe think about immersive. I mean, if you just look at how just i feel like the way. The world ofwork has changed right when we look at the future of work. We know a lot ofbasic things. One is highly distributed, work from home right when we look atall the projections. I think the most surprising statistics that i saw comeout of covin from work from homeward this. The statistics of sales. I thinkeveryone's initial thought was specifically in bt sales that it'sgoing to have a massive negative impact if people can't meet face to face on btob sales, but in fact what you saw was one third of bb sellers in this fullyvirtual, fully virtual environment were more effective. The next third wasequal and only one third was less so you could say that based on that couldbe a wash. But what we're saying is there's still a third of people thatare going to be more effective in a completely virtual world. So there isthat the way that we are collaborating in these worlds is completely changedright. So you had to move from. You know all your regular physical meetingsto virtual meetings. You often had to move into some type of a collaborativework, place, slack teams, lots of those different aspects so, as we think aboutcreating immersive experiences for employees, we have to start accountingfor all of these different moments and then you have to start saying: how doesthis change, how that person feels about their job and how they want to dotheir job, and is it easier for them to do your job? And so that's where youstart to see employee experience really start to come in, as we start to thinkabout the future of work, because it's not just can they get the work done?It's now going to be on the onus of the company to really make sure that personis as efficient and as productive as possible through modern technologyright so, and we've done a lot of these things in the past or you had knowledgepaces right, so everyone could know where they could go. We started to havesoftware, you could go and you could you know over the past ten years b,business software, you know i don't have to go to har to get my w t anymores go into. You know, work day and pull it down. As you start moving forward,we have to start thinking about what does the employee experience look likeand how do we make that better and so you're using the term of mercie sothink about these possible futures? Let's say that you are a service agentand let's say that you get a service call and that service call comes in andthe person has a problem. Xysta doesn't matter. The problem is, but the serviceagent isn't trained to solve that problem. Service agent gets off thecall in line and software. What happens next, as they get prompt to take acourse for ten minutes to then up skill them on that skill? That is exactlywhat's going to be happening, so in line ai is going to know what thisperson knows. What they don't know knows how they answered it and knowswhat they need to learn and then automatically upscale them. So that'sgoing to be an immersive experience that you're going to start to see ofhow we train people it's moving from mackerel skill to microskopische. Youcould take that a step further and say. Well then i don't we don't want to godown the rabbit hole, but like micro, skilling is a massive difference in thefuture right, it's just radically. Transformational, the entireeducational system in the future will be based on micro skills. It's alreadythe white house is already working on. It were working with them on thatproject, so you've got lots of cool stuff going down on that. We start tothink about immersive experiences in terms of how we collaborate right. Weare collaborating completely virtual. A lot of the work that we do in thefutures lab is a lot of workshop experiences, a lot of experientialthings right, so we go in traditionall.

This would have been sticky notes andwhiteboards drawing you know, fun, games and sure innovation workshops.I'm sure lots of you've been been a part of those and now we're doing themall completely virtual right. So that is a highly immersive experience. Sothere's lots of problems that we have with that and then it's you know how dowe make those easier for these employees? How to re? Retain thatknowledge? How do we just make this a better experience? So, as we then startto think about those things, i think video is going to it's played a massivepart, because that's the only way you can interface with your colleaguesright now. I think the biggest change for me in terms of how we think aboutimmersive is not necessarily the technology or where it's happening. Ithink the difference moving forward after cova is going to be the humannessof it because in the prior world we were very buttoned up currently rightnow my favorite part of interacting is i get to see someone's kid in thebackground i see someone's spouse walk by. I see some cats tail flip thecamera right. You see all kinds of it's as extremely human and it's a totallydifferent experience. That is very human that i don't want to change as wego back. I hope i know. I don't know that. What if this will happen or not?My hope is that as we go back, it is still okay to wear a tshirt and pajamapants if you're working from home period it right, if you want to you,know, dress up and you go in the office. That's fine, but i don't want to losethat humanness of the virtual interactions that we have currentlydialogue is different. Imagery is different. The feeling is different, soyou know, as we think about immersive. I hope that human aspect stays. I meani think that's much more cultural than it is technological. Do you want to askthe next one anything or i i think we stay on on ex at salesforce? In particular, i mean you're an eight year nine year employee. I forgethow long you've been there, and you know you cited that thatresearch last time we talked that's one of the things i love about. Talkingwith you is that, whether we're talking, whether i'm listening to you andsomeone else's, show whether we're reading you digitally you're readingyou in print there's always new research. But this this idea of greatex is a necessary precursor to great cx and great cx is a necessary precursorto revenue grows specifically one point: eight x revenue growth, if donecorrectly, per research with tiffany bova sales force, forbs insights, andso you know when you think about this in the context of sales, for us likewhat what are some of the elements that you've seen over the year specific toex that you think i know the research is relatively new, although it was donein other ways less specifically earlier on to but like what have you seeneither emerge or change or be consistent in your time inside,obviously, a world class organization that you think has been tedo successcor that value chain. Yes, let's there's a couple of really easyexamples that will pick on number. One is if we go back to how executiveleadership talked to the organization in the past and how we do it now isradically different. So traditional you would have had a town hall, it wouldhave been virtual because you know we are a global organization, so it wouldhave been scaled and you streamed, it would have been probably prettystandard. What you're, probably pretty used to someone stands behind a podiumsomeone's, giving a power point. There's video camera showing that tothe world, no, nothing really revolutionary. What happens now isthere's a tv show produced every week for internal employees and that tv showhas everything from you know ales celebrity guests all the way through totalking about things that we need to know about the company, but it's highlyproduced completely virtual right. All these people are all in virtual spacesand then it's delivered on a weekly basis. So we have like these newelements of of experience that just never existed before we have an entireseries called can be well and then that's all about you know the humanside of like taking care of yourself. You know like, and that's all about youknow, they'll be a meditation they'll... a yoga. They'll, be you know sometype of physical movement and then it be some other type of topic, but it'snot about business at all. It's all about making sure that bus employeesare taking care of ourselves, and that is something that happens on a weeklybasis. So you know there's a lot of big changes and these are all video, butthese are all delivered by a video you know and then, when we play them, youknow there's full interactivity. We've got back channels where you cancommunicate. You can throw questions in yeah, it's just it's very interactive,so those are all big changes to employee experience. That have happened,and you know those are all virtual experiences. I don't know how thephysical experiences are going to be yet because we haven't gone back. Youknow, and my question is we're a tech company and if you've ever work fortech companies like the standard experiences, pink pong tables and fullystocked fridges right. That's like the easy base line. Of course, we're stillgoing to have those, but what else changes i mean it's going to bedifferent, like i don't know, like an there's sure, there'll be less peoplein the office, but i don't know a deer point earlier, with the hybrid ofvirtual in person. Now you need to allocate for both when more people goback and make sure that both experiences are, you know, are great.You talked about providing a great experience from a company level and inthe upcoming book you talk a lot about providing great experiences forcustomers. We talked about. You know switchers and webinars, and creating adifferent type of experience, not just instanding front of a camera andtalking so take both of those topics, a better experience from a company forthe employee level and then using the latest technology tools to create greatexperience for future customers. How can the average not the average but avp of sales? A director, a manager create great experiences using the sameor similar tools. Do you see managers using switchers or trying to educatetheir little group of seven sales reps in a different manner, or are theyteaching and training the same way on a smaller scale? That's a good question.I i don't know if i have enough research really kind of give you somekind of a definitive answer on that. I can tell you you know when i've engagedwith you know, let's just take sales right, so i'll go and give apresentation to a group of sales. You know managers and their raps to kind offill them on on what's new and what should they be talking about? How ishould be talking about it and we do that by a pretty traditional. It's justa basic weapon are so in terms of the lift for that i don't see departmentheads doing that large of an investment in terms of full tv production, thosedifferent aspects, because the frequency, the value like, i think, theincremental value from a weben, or it's just to that, because the audience isfixed right. They don't have to get the audience to come back, they're going tocome back regardless because they need a paycheck. That's the carrot rightlike do you want to get paid, you show up, so i don't necessarily see thosepeople really investing in and taking the time to then really do these overprofessional things. I see those more as larger scale, efforts where you'retrying to keep and in tract an audience and keep that audience. I think that'sgoing to be the difference when there's competition involved, but when it'sjust basic knowledge share, i think just standard video is going to workfor a lot of those organizations. That makes sense. I saw something this week,though, called the by board, where it's like this big tv board that the personcan draw on and it works with zoom in it allows like white ording sessionslike with your teen live, and it really just got me thinking down that pathlike because it's expensive what everybody invest in that on you i don'tknow, i mean we do all that with jam board and miro, and you know pick yourluce chart. Like pick your pick, your flavor of collaborative, you knowsticky, note tool, and we all do that in different ways. You know so i thinkthat's a collaborative team thing if you're going to workshop and workthrough something i'm just standard meetings, i don't know it's almost anew art form a like. I look at the...

...lucid charts i've made to like explainsomething or to work something out or to work with somebody else. I look atother people's are like. That is a work of art. It's not it's, not a new artform, it's a new skill that we're going to have to embrace right. So i thinkthat is a big thing, so there's the two big skills and i think that people needto really consider an embrace our facilitation design and then all theelements around that facilitation design. So it's you know if we'retalking about how do we solve modern problems? We have new collaborationmethodologies. That is a new experience of how we do it right. We have a newthing that we can do. We know that if we do these things in new ways, theyproduce better outcomes, and so then the underlying skill is thefacilitation technique of do you know how to set this thing up. Do you knowhow to run this? It's not a standard power point in a meeting you're, notjust putting up five sides and opening up a discussion right, you're going inand you're. You know putting sticky notes on you're playing different gamesright and there's a whole like there's a whole profession of facilitation thatnow everyone is going to have to have, because, if you're going to want to runthat team meeting steve to your point right, if you're, you know going to awhite board and doing these different things. And now you have thesedifferent capabilities. It's so much faster for us to harvest informationfrom groups of people. It's so much faster to get consensus. It's so muchfaster to then move these things forward and produce better outcomes. Soi see that is a massive skill that everyone is going to have to have andthen event your point about the drawing. I think that's going to be anotherhuman element right, no one's expecting everyone to be a great artist, but wecan all play picton, ary right and so like that's a basic drawing skill andso like we're just going to have to have that and if you're looking atthose things or you know, pay a visual designer to kind of help. You withthose things, but i think, there's i think it's a skill of the future yeahand i think we learn from each other. I know i've learned just seeing how otherpeople are using. Some of these new tools has inspired me to just thinkabout them differently. You know you come to it thinking of it one way, andthen you see other ways. Other people are using it and it's been the samething with the bombum software two by the ways we you know as we originallycreated and then turned it loose to the world, and then you see how people useyour like. Oh, that is it's better and different in more than i ever thoughtit would be. It's awesome. I'm gonta double back into research, briefly kindof on two levels. One of them is, you know. Sales force obviously, has thismassive commitment to research? I'd love for you to kind of you don't needa like a hard specific answer on it, but like what do you think is the thegoal or motivation there? It's obviously for external use. It's forinternal use, it's a blend of both. It's obviously really important. It'sjust a responsibility that an industry leading and kind of world class companyshould just undertake and then, after that, i'd love to get a little bit morepersonal and just in knowing your influences from having read and listento talk and talking to you, i feel like there's an element of you, diving,deeply and thoughtfully into the past in order to see the president futuremore clearly or something. But we'll start first with the big kind of salescourse question. The simple answer of that is just rnd, but you just thinkabout rnd ditches, research right and so rand's always been a significantbudget of any progressive company. If they want to progress, you have to havenew research and new design, and so for a company like us, software you're notnecessarily doing as much or indeed to build new tech but you're doing tons ofresearch on what is your demographic wanting what's working and then there'sall the market factor ri. So we have multiple layers of research. You gotthe traditional research, which is what do your customers want? What parts ofthe product are working? How do you do that better and you've got methods thatare standard methods right you o custer advisory boards. You got ux you've gotyou know the then you've got really cool new stuff. Like full story. Whereyou, you know, you can watch an individual in real time by the way.Love you scott good job with that one then you've got you know. So we do thatand then we've got the external facing research, which is more of our state ofreports right. So we have an entire department that then develops thosereports, an that acts as a shared...

...service inside the organization wherethey partner, with different clouds and figure out. You know what we want toresearch. What does the market care about to know and that's really used it?As you know, mostly, it's just content creation right we're producing that tothen you know share with our audience to keep that relationship alive, butthen also gets used back in to say what should we be thinking about? How shouldwe redesigning products so it kind of a cyclical aspect to it, but then there'slike so many other aspects of research, because you know we've so manydifferent clouds right. So then you've got you know, so you know we boughtdemand where which is one of the world's largest e commerce platform. Sowe have the ability to see those transactions and have that researchright. So that's proprietary that we can run all kinds. So you know when weget to the holiday seasons, we'll be able to show you. You know what was themost talked about product and you know what were the big changes and how manywhat percenter products were bought with this payment methodology versusthis pain, ent, methold and, like you know, by online pick up in storeincrease sales by twenty five percent for those that did it was didn't. Sothose are super helpful for two reasons. One is. We can then provide that backright, so we can go back to our costers and say hey if you want to be betterhere's the data that you should probably be looking at to make youbetter and then you know, then does the standard content at large right we getto talk about it. We get to write about it. So i don't know. I just loveresearch, because it's what i love insides. I love that kind of stuff. Soi don't know if that answers the question, but we just we have lots andlots of layers of research yeah go into that a little bit personally, as wekind of start heading tor to wind down. How do you approach it? I mean when ithink about you and you, like you, reminded me of some things that i lovedmyself, like the experience economy, clue train manifesto small is beautiful,like these things that i read like you've. Obviously looked back, you knowto things that i mean small as beautiful is older than you are it'sabout as old as me. Talk about how you approach theresearch, obviously you're, using current methods and generating newresearch, but what is the role of like you know, learning from the past inorder to inform that process, for you personally for me personally, it'sanxiety and imposter syndrome. So, if i don't have a full view, know everything about a topic, i feelvery unconfident about telling people what to do. I used to have a really bigfear when i was speaking on stage and that fear was that i was going to saysomething and that someone was going to stand up in the audience and belly.That's not true. Did you read this? He says this or she says this, and in thatcounteracts your point, i was really afraid of that. Now, it's silly becauseit's never happened to me in my entire life, so it's kind of like you know afear that we have, but so that's to me. The reason why i go so far back isbecause i want to have a super, solid foundation and understand as much as ican, because to me, the more that you understand the more that you understand.The reason why things are the way they are the better. You can then look atsignals that are coming out and saying: how will this affect that and how willthat change that has this changed in the past? What was that effect? How isthis different than that? So i just think that when you're a researcherlooking at a topic, it really just behoves you to have a really solidfoundation in the classic ideas. Why do they come about? Where do they comefrom before you really start trying to progress awesome every conversationagain, as mentioned in the beginning, i learned something by talking to youmatthew, so lean that i have sensual anxiety and thank you for contributingto to our next book. I want to ask, as we wind this down as ethan mentioned,just a question around the book. Obviously you're you're one of oureleven guests yeah. What are you looking forward to? Who are you lookingforward to reading about in the book or what excites you about it? I think thething that excites me it's i mean it's chapter, one in the book. I think justyou know looking through of what's there and what i want to read and wheni want to dive deeper into and the topics that really fascinate meets it'sdigital pollution, i'm a massive fan of media, how media interacts and how itchanges the world and digital pollution is a radical thing right. The other dayi put up on linkedin just let this think in the information age gave wayto the post truth era right, so we live... a world and we thought that moreinformation would make help us make better decisions, but it's actually notwhat it did. It just allowed us to then have our own biases and hold on to themlonger. You know so it's a really interesting world of when you have theability for everyone to make a comment and to produce something. How does thatthen change? And then you know you can pull the signal and the noise analogyof power you able to then determine what are the signals through all thenoise and what is even true in this world and, like you know, we we dealtwith you know spycraft in this world right. Socialwarfare is like something that we've been talking about since two thousandand twelve. So i don't know, i think that's going to be that's. What i'msuper excited about is this digital pollution awesome yeah. There was a funconversation as part of our interview with you. In particular, i mean thatsubjective aspect of it is so key and folks you again can read about it, butat the end of the book we leaned into a book written by a woman named ninashick called deep fakes. She calls it the coming in facilis, which is likeobviously, a blood of information and apocalypse, and it really immediatelyyou wind up with it when synthetic media is as believable as real medialike it used to mean something to have video evidence of something. There is apoint in the foreseeable future when video evidence means nothing to thedegree that we can't like authenticate or verify it like. It's superinteresting, so, post truth, if you think post truth is interesting, nowwait. I don't know five years to fifteen years is a co. Toga, china andsouth korea already have three d a i news anchors. Those are actually liveand in market and have been for years. They had yes, so why news is completelydelivered by an ai virtual bout, face the d person ye. I wonder how peopleare reacting to that? Do they enjoy that better or do they want? Haven'tdone the research into? What is the effects of that? I just know thatthey're doing it, but you could distraite really cool things right likeyou, can change serious voice. What happens when you just? I want to havethe news red by my grandfather every day right and then you can trap playthat into other industries of what happens when i want to have harry carey,actually be my announcer again. You know yeah man. I want him to call thebears game. Yeah, you could yeah that's totally thing: it's not be waigate yeah,throw his voice and his maniri anything super interesting. If you werelistening to this and you have enjoyed our conversation with matthew sweezy.Obviously these are some of the themes that you can find in the book thatwe're working on together and we're doing these conversations with alleleven people. So we've already released conversations with dan tire ofhub spot, with lauren bailey, a founder and president of both factory and girlsclub coming up, we've got customer service and customer experience, expert,shep, hiken, a prolific video user, one of the few people in the ten sand,video club and a linked in top sales boys for three years running, morgan, jand gram. So we've got these conversations running all summer longmatthew. Thank you for participating again with us. We love spending timewith you before we let you go. Steve's got questions for you that i asked youlast time you appeared on the podcast yeah what company really provides andamazing that you've experienced personally? That just goes above andbeyond and customer experience. Who do you want to shout out i'm trying tothink of the products i've just bought recently? I don't really know ma justgonna go. I just love patagonia. I think everything they do is great. So ijust gonna go with there above and beyond the reason, i'm going to say wotthat from cusper experience standpoint is just in terms of product. You canturn something back. You can get it redone, you can get it fixed. You canhave it you've shipped back. I just love patagonia, so i don't. I thinkit's a cop out to answer, but that's on i'm gonna go with that one. Now it's agood answer and is there anyone that you want to think that has had apositive impact on your life and our career? Oh gee, so many people, i thinkjust in lieu of mother's dams, can go to my mom. I mean i just that was onsunday and you know its want to say. Thank you so much mom, for you know,teaching me so much stuff and being...

...very supportive of my life and mychoices and just you know, being there and being supportive, so and say: yeah,mom, awesome, love it well done as always and plus one to patagonia,especially on warn ware. You can buy basically brand new clothes for, likesixty five percent of the cost of the actual brand new close before we letyou go. You know if folks are listening at this point, they've obviouslyenjoyed the conversation. They've learned as much as steve, and i did,and so where would you send people if they want to learn more about you? Yourword winning podcast by the way i feel free to shout the head out is steve. Itoff the top, the books that you've written the sales force futures lablike where would you send people to follow up on this conversation, just goto linkedin and find me on linkedin and follow along. I really probably may usethat platform more than anything else to publish stuff these days, so justlinked in and spelling of, my name is matthew with one t and then last name:sweezy s, w e e z, e y awesome thanks. So much this guys too often, you areoverwhelmed by the amount of noise in your inbox and slack in your lengthenedmessages and every other channel and medium you use and guess what so areyour prospects, customers, employees and recruits digital pollution is theproblem. Human centered communication is a solution from the authors of thebest selling book rehumanize, your business comes a new book humancentered communication, a business case against digital pollution, featuringexpert insights from leaders at companies like sales force hub spot andven gressa, giving you proven methods to earn attention, build trust, createengagement and enhanced reputation, helping you connect and communicatemore effectively with the people who matter most learn more and pre order.Your copy today at bombace and ask about special packages for your team,your company or your community by emailing book at bom, bom com visit,bom, bom com book or email book at bom bamot. Thanks for listening to thecustomer experience. Podcast remember. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,continue learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now inyour favorite podcast player, or visit bom bombo podcast t.

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