The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 142 · 1 year ago

142. Don't Just Personalize, Get Personal w/ Kristina Jaramillo


When marketing speaks to one-to-many, we’re addressing industries. When we speak to one-to-few, we’re addressing personas. But personal relevance in one-to-one messaging means that we speak to how unconsidered gaps will affect that individual specifically.

In this episode, I interview Kristina Jaramillo, Founding Partner at Personal ABM, about the difference between personalized and personal ABM — and why the key is CX.

Kristina talked with me about:

- What putting the customer first really means

- How you should be using LinkedIn

- Personalized vs. personal ABM

- Who to target and how to target them

- The relationship between ABM and CX

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When companies are doing it best, I think, is they're putting the customer first, and I know everyone always says their customer centric, but you actually have to prove it. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Winning accounts, protecting accounts and expanding accounts not with a personalized approach, but rather with a truly personal approach. That's what today's guest helps her clients with every day as president and founding partner of personal ABM. A decade ago, she left the corporate world on this entrepreneurial journey and now focuses on account based marketing to produce sales conversations. She's helping software companies and supply chain firms Eddie personal layer to their approach in order to win, protect and expand high value accounts. Christina Hawramio, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you so much for having me then I'm excited to have this conversation. It's something I'm really fashionate about. Yeah, me too. I really enjoy the work that you do. I did not attend the event that you put on last year, but I saw a lot about it, read a lot about it. I listen new couple podcast where you talk, where you were talking about it, and the conversation we're going to have today is right in zone for what we're trying to do here on the podcast, which is kind of reduced silos and cree better conversations and better alignment, not to just to get better results, but in order to serve our customers better. And I know you've got a lot to offer on this, so will get straight into it. When I say customer experience, Christina, what does that mean to you? All right, customer experience to me is also goes with handinhand with prospect experience, but it's every interaction that sales, marketing, account management, anyone who's fire facing has, and that means the interactions are having on social interactions, either email or even live communications or now you know, virtual communications, and how they feel after the interaction. There's a quote from Tiffany Bova that I really like. She's now at sales force. I think she said this before, that she mentioned how you sell and market matters. Your sales and marketing process is are matter, but how prospects and customers feel when they engage with you matters more, and that last part is really the best part, I think of that sentence. How prospects, or quote, how prospects and customers feel when they engage with you, matters more than anything else. But I'm seeing a lot of sales and marketing not focusing enough of their time on interactions with prospects and with customers because they're really campaign based and I think it's they forget that in most cases you have one chance to win protector expand accounts. One communication, missfire, one wrong interaction, one bad prospect or customer experience is going to have a detrimental effect. It's going to result in unresponsiveness, maybe an action, maybe they just let their contract with you expire and that's the end of it. But a lot of sales and marketing account and customer teams are traditionally speaking at industries and at volumes of account just to get scale with very little, zero relevant. So when firms engage in account based approach. They often speak at accounts with the same messaging and don't consider that value is different from person to person within the same account and they're not speaking to the people within the target accounts to try to create that human bond and not directly going to the decision makers, which is really important, and influencers with the insights that are specific to their gaps, their impacts and content that speaking to them specifically. I really appreciate how quickly and specifically you went straight to the individual there. I think that really sets up a lot of we're will be in conversation together today. But I also love that quote from Tiffany Bova and I agree that's been a theme here in these questions and responses right off the top, which is how we make people...

...feel matters as much or more than anything else, and I think it's because, from a scientific standpoint, emotions drive both memory and motivation, and so if there is going to be any action, it is going to be emotionally inspired, and so this ability to make people feel positively or to feel something specific to your product or serve us the outcome the nature of your relationship together. I think you're setting yourself up to be remarkable in some way and to actually drive behavior and at to your point, when we're just like blasting things out because it feels good on a report to have bigger numbers, that we could tend to lose track of how we're making people feel in that process. Is Something we at bombomb called digital pollution and you know, we are polluters ourselves at times. It's not a perfect process, but I think it's important to keep in mind. So we're trying to raise that conversation. So, before we get too much farther, I would love for you to share with people what you're doing at personal ABM. You know who's your I. Ideal Customer there. I already mentioned two of the primary groups that you serve, and what problems are you solving for those people? Sure, sure. So. Personally AB M, if anyone's not familiar with ABM, personal account base marketing. So we work with SASS, technology, supply chain and other read to be firms that sell into the enterprise that are looking to create six or seven figure deals. And our clients are not looking forarly, it's they want more revenue, they want faster revenue growth. With tier one accounts, because we are only focused on revenue and tier when accounts and Howard getting those conversations to revenue. So many ABM programs or companies that engage in ABM kind of focus on filling the pipeline with engaged accounts. But we focus on four different areas that tend to create the best results. So the first one is accounts that are not in market yet. They're stuck in status quo. They're not responding to general pain point messaging that maybe sales and marketing sending out. So they need more personal relevance, a differentiated prospect experience where you work with them to create that buyer vision or buying vision. Typically that I'll also create a larger deal size. We also work with a counts that are previously showed intent but for some reason became engaged. Typically we see it's because they don't see themselves in the story that sales and marketing is telling and that emotional connection is not being made and or a business case was not proven. A third area that we work with is counts that are stuck in the middle or the buy bottom of the buying journey. So in many cases sales and marketing where may be unable to create experience for the internal discussions. They might not be privy to. So they were an ambile to make that or create or drive buying consensus. They didn't put buyer enablement program in place. And then the last area that we work with is existing counts are at risk or existing accounts that are not expanding because they're having tactical discussions with sales and marketing around activities completed and general benefits and not driving a strategic conversation that's maybe engaging with the decisionmaker. So the VP's and the C suite awesome. I think we'll get into some specific I will ask of you some specific tips for how to create more emotions, specifically mid to bottom of funnel and also perhaps on that expansion side. But before we do, like how did you what was the process? It doesn't surprise me that you have a very well defined ICP right like mid market come, but he's that sell the enterprise six to seven figure deals and these particular industries and for you it's primarily SASS and supply chain. What was your process of discovering that? Like is this something that you've been focused on for eight years, or is this something you've been focused on for the past few years? Like what was the process of getting so specific with who you know you can serve best? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, for starters we've always been be tob but we had started with small to medium size companies, even, you know, under five people companies. But we realized that the platform that we used happens to be Linkedin, it's just our platform of choice, is really where you could get with buyers and engage with byres and we kind of realized that, you know, there were a lot...

...of technology people, there were a lot of software people using Linkedin to learn, to gain valuable insights to improve their jobs, improve their their their roles. So that's how we kind of figure that, you know, tech and and SASS would work really well, and that has been a focus for at least eight years. And supply chain has only been maybe the last five years or so, but because we realize it was such an industry that had a really hard time differentiating themselves from one to another. Supply chain, logistics, three pl that kind of space is very everyone sounds the same, so it's very easy to differentiate, but no one's actually doing it. So we kind of were brought into that arena and we figured that it worked really well. We got some awesome results. We kind of expanded from they're awesome. We're to talk about sales and marketing, we're talk about ABM, but just staying on the scheme of customer experience in particular in the way that you defined it. When you think about some of the clients that you've helped, you know, build these various campaigns for various stages of relationship, all with the revenue orientation, what are some things that the best companies that you work with do well with regard to producing positive feelings with people and or what are a lot of companies missing here? All right, so when companies are doing at best, I think, is they're putting the customer first, and I know everyone always says their customer centric, but you actually have to prove it and one of the best ways to do it, I mentioned linkedin before, is to go to a bunch of salespeople's profiles on Linkedin and see who it's written for. Is it written for them to get a new sales position or is it written for the customer? They're actually looking to serve the customers they're actually they're serving now clients that they've helped recently and sharing stories and that's like a big, big area of focus when we work with clients is that's the first thing that we try to fix because, no matter how you're trying to get to access a prospect or a customer, if you're engaging with them and they see the first thing that you want to engage with them is all about you, all about your quota, all about your sales achievements, it's kind of off putting and they don't want to be another number. They don't want to be it's another cog in your wheel to get you to your next promotion or next president's Club. They want to know that you have the experience to help them the value that you're going to give them. So that's where we start and I think the companies that are doing that and actually putting the customer first, on Linkedin, but also in the content they're sharing, the messaging they're putting out, any kind of interaction and to treating every little touch point with a customer prospect as a mini sales conversation. Those two companies that are doing it well and doing it right, because I talked about earlier. One communication missfire can lead to a deal that's gets stuck or it just goes unresponsive. So I think that's that's what I say that the best companies are doing. I love that tip. So for folks for listening, there's a sixty two back button for a reason. That's so you can go sixty two back, sixty seconds back, right now and put this on your to do list for today or tomorrow. Look at your linkedin profile, if you're using linkedin degenerate business and degenerate sales conversations. Look at who it's written for. Who is the about section written for? What are your bullet points under your role? I love this idea, Christina, of setting yourself up as an expert oriented toward the problems are opportunities faced by your primary customers, and so it seems so intuitive. But I would guess that if I did this across some of the people that I know, people who I like, friends of mine, I would guess that a lot of them really are a lot of the you know, not necessarily a bad person for wanting to prop yourself up and look really good. It's here the point. It looks a heck of a lot more attractive to a potential employer than it does to a potential customer, which I think is a really interesting dynamic and it kind of implied in your response there, and I think this is true of you. I would expect that it is. So I'd love for you to share anything on it. You know,...

I feel like what you're setting up here is the idea of making yourself available as a, you know, to use a common phrase, trusted advisor, to use a less common phrase, you know, kind of an industry expert type of person, or perhaps even a teacher for this particular type of person or industry or roll. Talk about that dynamic a little bit. I mean, obviously I think the best sales are being done in partnership, perhaps with an educational bent, with an effort to help and serve, rather than again just to make your way to President's Club, which is probably a nice thing. It's probably going somewhere nice. It is probably actually going this year. You probably are getting out a plane sometime soon, like last year. But talk about that dynamic a little bit, because I really heard that in your response of what your linked in profile looks like. I think you know it's no fault of anyone. I think they just a sales people and a marking people. Don't think about it this way. I mean linked there was kind of set up initially to be kind of like a job networking site, but it's totally evolved and I think that if you make with sure that it's written for you're more of a teacher, you're more of someone that they can learn learn from. I'm going to be I know personally and I know from my experience with clients and things, that people are going to be more receptive to an invite to connect, to a nurture message, to maybe even a call later down the line if they know that they have learned something from you. You've added value to them, you've shared content with them that is relevant to them and helps them solve a challenge that they're having, even if it gets them a little insight, little commercial insight, which is really important, you know, helps them think of differently of how they're actually doing their role on a day to day basis, as opposed to saying you connected with me now I'm going to try to get you on a demo, I'm going to try to get you on a sales call within fifteen minutes of septing accepting my connection. You know, here's my counterlink. Let's get on the call. You have to actually, you know, warm that conversation up and if you can say that just by looking at your profile or just by the content that you're sharing or any post that you're putting out there, if it feels like you're communicating, to share ute with relevant value and give an actual intention, people are going to be more responsive. I mean last year linked into study, I believe, right after maybe a few months into the see nineteen. They show that organizations were seeing about forty four percent report insignificant, in a significant decline in our responsiveness. And you know, a lot of people were blaming it on the pandemic and the change of the economy and the change of the environment, and I think it was part of the issue, but I think it's just been a downward trend that was exacerbated by this and you know it's because people are not putting themselves in the buyer or customer shoes and saying what would I want from a seller? Do I want to actually have a buy and selling relationship or do I want a partner teacher kind of relationship someone I can learn from awesome. I think probably the biggest struggle is people developing their voice. You know, I think we say that people find their voice, develop it. And so I would just say to any salesperson or market or listening that that is in this really any revenue professional. When you think about what Christina just offered, you have a lot more to share than you may even recognize because, especially if you have a really good focus. However, you think about it, persona ICEP, if you're talking to a variety of people who all share a set of criteria together, you have a lot to teach other people who fit two or three of those criteria and it's just a matter of offering it out for conversation. Sometimes asking a question you don't it doesn't you don't have to be the first person ever to say something for it to be useful and you don't have to say it better than anyone else. Is just really starting the conversation at all is something that not enough people are doing. Kind of to your point there. While we're on Linkedin, something I loved about the about section of your linkedin profile. And I'm just going to read it. It's just one line and then we'll talk about a couple different aspects of it. So the line is this. One too many marketing drives awareness, but it's too impersonal to move hearts and minds, and so we can take this one step at a time. But I think what's in... is this idea of personal versus personalized, which I would love to get your thoughts and observations and opinions on. And the other piece that I'd like to get to, and it probably connects back to the field language that we were talking about, in your definition of customer experience or Tiffany Bova's, or subcombination of yours and hers, is two hearts and minds peace, this idea that we need to speak to whole people and not just to, you know, some rational argument collecting part of someone's brain. So talk about one to many marketing and why it's too in personal. Yeah, so I think the issue that I find with it and why it's too in personal, as one too many marketing speaks to general assumptions, general pain points. So when you speak to many, you speak at industries, which means there's very little personalization you're hoping that you're going to catch someone that's pain point is at ten on the pain scale so they'll want to take action now. But you know the chances of finding someone that their pain point is attend on the pain scales like finding a needle in a haystack. So it's making it much harder for you as a sales are marketing or customer leader. And in many cases the pain point is, you know, low on the scale for people and you're just competing with a number of other priorities. And another thing with responding to general assumptions when as one too many and pain points is probably very similar to what your competitors are doing. So there you're also going to sound the same. So that's the problem with with one too many and not being able to get as personal as as you can. So the once to few you speak to personas within market accounts, you speak to the industries, that you're personalizing it to industry, but you're still speaking at accounts, you're still speaking at the buyers rather than to them. So you're missing that personal relevance, you know, and in many cases with that approach you focus on what target accounts are searching for so maybe using intent data or maybe you're, you know, using other other technology to help you figure that out. But you know, we spoke about this before, is personal relevance and personalization is very different. When you're personally relevant, you go beyond tailoring content and messaging for what accounts are searching for. You beyond campaigns based on generalized personas and assumptions and pain points. You speak at gaps, especially unconsidered gaps, that the person might have and the personal impacts to them in their role, not just for the organization. How is it going to actually impact them specifically, and you challenge prospects, specific assumptions and you speak to their domain in a way that they haven't thought of. They have an appreciated they have it may be considered and you show that you understand their specific use case and suggest a new way of solving their problems and you can reframe how they think about their business and how they operate. So there's a couple of things that you're going to be able to uncover when you do this. What's behind the prospects intent? So if they were searching for something and you found they were using a keyword that's relevant to you, what's behind it? What's that million dollar headache? And, you know, both on the account levels, so their organization, but also on their personal level. How is that headache affecting them? What's going on within the organization at the different divisions? That can impact in operational excellence? How can impact customers? How can it even impact their PNL, depending who you're talking to? And another thing I consider is what are the account specific or competitor focus gaps that are not being considered? What have they not thought of and how those personal impacts, you know, being maybe either not considered or but they you know, might be a bigger problem than they thought. How are they being underestimated? That personal connection that we've been talking to with the human buyers is how you're going to shift those hearts, shift minds and, more importantly, shift the wallets with the biggest part of the market, which is about sixty percent, that are stuck in status quo, and also those that have become disengaged because they're not, you know, they're not seeing their story or themselves in the story. That's how we were able to help US supply chain and Tech Company, create two million dollar closes, protect at risk accounts and grow margins and even reverse no or world will talk about this later... six months, kind of position and expand even accounts within territories and departments because we were taking that very personal, relevant one to one approach. Why do so few like it? Seems kind of obvious to me. I think the answer to my question is kind of obvious to so I'll probably ask it with an answer, but then, like you, take it somewhere else, like if we know intuitively as buyers and even as sellers, like as buyers ourselves and as sellers, we know what has worked in the past. We know that the more personal we can be, truly one to one, like bespoke communication, actually thinking about someone in a seat in a company, in an industry, instead of everyone in seats that look like this, that or the other, we know that that's more effective. We know that it makes people feel better because they feel seen and appreciated and helped and served. Probably if you're doing it well, why does this feel like a revelation, like why? Why aren't more people doing is is it simply because I need scale, I need bigger numbers, I need a fatter pipeline, even though I'm converting it at fifteen percent, like why are why aren't more people do why isn't this the default? In your experience? So in my experience the first thing that people say, well, you can't scale that. And the idea is not to necessarily scale ABM, but scale the learnings from ABM and when you take a personal abim approach. So that's the reason we've also niched ourselves. Only deal with's here when it counts, because this is a time consuming approach. This takes a lot of work, takes a lot of manpower, it takes a lot of research, so that you're only going to do use it with accounts that are going to be six seven figure plus, because they're going to be larger accounts. But stay let's say you pick, you know, two or three dozen top tier when accounts you're going to run and these kind of ABM programs. With whatever you learn, whatever insights you gain, whatever knowledge you get from you know what's working, what's not working, you can scale that out to tier two and tier three. But I think because we are I know marketing as a whole. I'm sure this goes across other parts of the organization. Are really focused on building a pipeline, top of the funnel, filling it, filling it, but not necessarily focused on the quality and where those leads going. Are they actually going all the way through to revenue? Are they getting stuck in the middle? Are they not even going past the top? So because it's such a you know, niched or it's harder approach, people, I think, get intimidated. But I think if you implement it that way and look at it through that kind of Lens, that it's not for every account, then it will be easier to kind of use it and adopt it to aspects of it, to other parts of your marketing and sales. I love it. It it's probably the answer to something I observed in, you know, preparing for this. I saw some of your case studies where, you know, win rates are sixty, seventy, seventy five percent, you know where. I don't know what the averages for companies like these, but I would guess it's probably closer to twenty percent. And I would bet that that tension is right where you just were, which is quality versus quantity. I mean, we need to figure out both. We can't just you know, in theory. You know, you could just keep focusing on quality, quality, quality, quality. So you've got a couple accounts and you can converted ninety percent rate but still miss the number. It's so is that the key in the tension is is more emphasis on quality, probably disqualifying more accounts sooner in order to increase increase win rates, which then allows us probably to put more of our limited time and energy and effort, and human time in particular, and other resources we invest in developing these relationships in these accounts. We can put them where they probably matter most. Yet absolutely, and it's and I don't want to just want to go back. It doesn't it. This, personally, am is not an all or nothing approach. It's in conjunction with campaigns because you're always going to need...

...them. But the reason the hot win rates for us or so much highers because we're actually named accounts. So our clients will say we have a PNG account that we want to protect or we want to get a new logo and Oracle. We know is a good fit, and this is why so every stage of the the program, of the ABM program, we're looking at it so closely to see if it actually is a fit, because it just because it was a fit last week doesn't meet. It still a fit this week? Should we still be taking this kind of focus with them? So it's almost like we're looking to poke holes in it as to why it might not work. What is that issue that's coming about today? Do we find out that they're, you know, freezing spending for the next six months? Did we find out that they're they just got a whole new round of funding? There's all different things that can happen. So because they're so niched and so targeted, that's why, you know, the win rates are so much higher. And going back to that quote I mentioned about Tiffany Bova, how you sell a market matters. So your sales and prodd marketing process are going to matter when it comes to this. So how you're going to go back to making that prospect feel when they engage with you? The key is is the experience that you deliver. So does your profile, does your content, does your messaging speak to these target accounts, the human buyers within the accounts? Is there a real intention behind every interaction, every communication, every message, every article you send? Are you helping prospects see their gaps and impacts at their company level down to their division rank, personal financial all the way down to customer levels, so that you can help them create that buying concess consensus internally and are you enabling customers with the confidence they need to make that decision? Because everyone knows no decision is always easier than making a decision is particular if you know it's a large investment. Yeah, I could have, should have, would have done this maybe ten or fifteen minutes ago, but there's so much groundwork to be laid. I'd love free to just to talk about a BM in general. It's obviously it's obviously account based marketing, but maybe speak to it a couple levels. I think for those that don't really know anything about it but have seen it that you know, it definitely feels buzzwordy. I think for people who aren't necessarily in sales or marketing, you have some passing familiarity with it, like maybe their team members and sales or marketing are talking about ABM. I think for people who have a basic understanding, they might think that it's just like hey, I'm going to subscribe to some software and run some targeted advertising where I'm only running these ads at these accounts. You've obviously gotten too, a lot more nuance there. But for the sake of getting clear on it, and particularly for my interest in your own philosophy on it, how do you talk about abm like he's because you said, like what you've been talking about is not the only way to do it. It's not the only aspect of it. It's kind of like a both and like what are some of the layers? are some of the approaches or, you know, where does software and tech fit in with a BM? What is share anything you have on account based marketing in general? Why is it? Why does it feel like it's new? Why does it feel like it's a buzz word? Yeah, it totally is a buzzword. It's a huge buzz word. I don't think that it's new. I think it just got be given a name. So account I've heard it called account base marketing, Acount Bay sales, account based strategy, whatever it is. It's just going after, you know, targeted actual accounts. But at a lot of people, a lot of sales and marketing teams are looking into it because it's been so widely used and they're see seeing, you know, some businesses that are taking an interesting approach or taking a more strategic approach or seeing significant business impact with ABM. And I think the ones that aren't is because they they you know, they're turned ABM it too tactical. So it's become a count based awareness, account based advertising, like you mentioned, even account basically generation programs, especially when they have the addition of a BM of technologies like terminus and demand base, which are awesome tools, but they're only a part of the strategy. So, you know, the technologies are a great you know, in some of our clients even use these platforms, but again, only tools, and ABM is so much more than that. It's not just tools,...'s not a tactic, it's an actual business strategy. Is a business strategy which is ensuring accounts that would have the greatest impact actually get to revenue and existing counts lead to even more revenue. So that that's the way I see that. There's a big difference. So this means that the sales, marketing and account management need to work together. So this isn't just a marketing thing, this isn't just a sales thing, it's the whole organization. You know, they need to work together to create the desired experience, especially with the tier one accounts versus worrying about scaling, because I you know, I'm sure everyone's heard this stat that eighty percent of your revenue comes from twenty percent of your accounts. So if we're really focusing on scaling, your automatically impactating the interactions they have and the experience of prospects and clients have, and it might not be the one that you want. So you can't scale personal you know, it's really impossible to scale personal interactions and personal experiences. What you do is you scale what you learn from applying those strategies to tier one, like I mentioned earlier, to the other aspects of your outreach. Love it. It was just kind of envisioning this idea of sales and marketing being much more involved post sale with their time and energy, not just to learn to do better on the on the front side of the relationship, but we're to be a value and service to account management, taking what they learned and what worked precommitment to apply to in the relationships developed, to apply that post sale in order to turn your good accounts into fantastic accounts, just to continue solving problems for them or to solve the same problem from more people in that organization, all the other ways we expand. You said revenue a few times there. I would love for you. Obviously revenue is the goal. If you spend any time on Linkedin, like you and I do, like probably most listeners do, you hear things like sales and marketing alignment. You hear things like the mql is dead and we should just throw it in the garbage and it's all revenue, revenue, like. There's a lot here and you can offer like legit Info, or offer opinion or offer provocation, do whatever you want with this, but obviously revenue is the ultimate goal. I personally feel like there are precursors to revenue that we need to be tracking, that do need to be on the board, that we do need to be talking about. We might over worship them, it might make us a little bit too siloed in our thinking if we overfocus on these things. But for you, like what are some metrics that are obviously vanity metrics to you, and or we're some really good, important metrics that are precursors to revenue that we should pay attention to, no matter who on Linkedin post about it being dead. Yeah, so vanity metrics, and I know some people are going to disagree with me in this, clicks on a post, likes on a post, comments on a book the Post. That don't add value or actual engagement. So anything that says great post, great idea, thanks for sharing that to me doesn't really count for much. I understand why marketing tends to track it. It just not something that I am in concerned with. So that type of thing, traffic to certain particular articles might not be or certain particular landing pages might not be on my top ten. I think things that are more important are. Are we shortening the sale cycle time? Are we in proving wind rates? Are we growing deal sizes as a whole? Are we reducing customer turn are we increasing customer lifetime value? And I know pipeline is a big thing, but are those pipeline conversion converting to revenue with key accounts? You know, are your ABM programs working? That would be a great way to track it. Are you expanding into New Territories? Are you expanding accounts? And then, obviously overall revenue growth is always something that is really important and I think something that probably gets overlooked is the interactions that lead to it. So, are you getting further down the line? Are you engaging with a champion? Are you engaging with a decision maker? Are they getting more people involved in the conversation? Are you able to, you know, as a sale seller or marketer, customer success person, are you able to open...

...that door, get more buy in and, you know, like if you're looking to expand an account, are you having engagement with people other than the you know, the operations people or the people that are using your service or or tool? Are you getting buy in from their decisionmakers? They're people that are actually going to say whether they expand with you or, you know, continue their contract with you. Love it. I love this focus on relationships and somehow, obviously keeping really good notes on it, but perhaps even making a bigger deal out of it, you know, in terms of some of the boards that we use for reporting and understanding and storytelling internally, this idea of how many relationships, like direct connections, have we made, and did we establish them ourselves or we introduced to these additional people, like did we earn the trust of this person so they open the door to these other people? Kind of a scenario? I really like the way that you're you're thinking about that and talking about it. Let's get really tactical for a minute. What are what are a couple key things you think that could help people accelerate to revenue in middle bottom of funnel, acquisition side, middle to bottle of funnel? Okay, I think what happens is that a lot of sales and marketing leaders are not that working handinhand. So recently I was on an on my podcast that you're going to be on Ethan, with Cassander Jowitt. She's path factories senior director of marketing. She mentioned that she compares the buyers journey to the game that's a kids game called the floor is lava on that true people familiar with it, to Netflix TV show. Anyway, you're supposed to get from one part of the room to another and you have to jump on it for an obstacles, take different jumping points and not fall into the lava. So it's the same kind of thing with buyers. You want to get into that safe harbor. You want to make sure that they don't fall into the lava. Halfway through their journey. They're jumping from one rock to another and so on. So you kind of lay that path that's very clear, or try to, but in many cases it's not clear. It's really you know, they take different twist and turns and campaigns and messaging reinforce the needs, wants and ideas of the champion, but maybe they don't speak to the team, they don't speak to the decision maker. Content is missing to for and, you know, to support the internal conversation experience, something that you know, sales and marketing might not be included on. Buyer enablement is a key thing of why these accounts are getting stuck in the middle and and bottom of the funnel. I think the ABM program for example, might lack buyer enablement. I was doing some research and I saw a study from Gardner back in two thousand and nineteen that overwhelmed their be tob buyers are really overwhelmed and their face facing a crisis of competence and they're struggling to make large scale purchasing decisions. And the actual root cause of the research fround was it's not that they are having issues with the suppliers offerings or the solutions, it's how they perceive themselves. They're having a really hard time in having confidence to make the right decision, and I think it's because there's so much information out there that they are bombarded with it. Maybe sales and marketing is just pushing out they kind of can't decipher it. So they either are left with confusion no decision, they fall into the lava because they just don't know what to do. And this, this study was, interestingly enough, done before. Buyers have had the world turn turned upside down in two thousand and twenty. So I think it's just going to get amplified now that we are, you know, in today's digital environment, but pushing out more messaging and content and not pushing out messaging and content that actually has intention. I think that's the most important part, is that if you're using content and messaging an intentional way, it's going to give people, and buyers especially, more clarity in their decisions versus, you know, taking the easy way out, which is no decision. Yeah, there's so much I appreciate about what you offered there, but two things in particular. One, this idea of more content isn't better. I mean the the every time you reach out to me, you're training me to...

...engage with or to ignore what you're sending me and if it's if it's good, I'll keep engaging. If it if you have three goods and then a bad, I might still engage with the next one, hoping that it's going to be another good, but if it's irrelevant, distant, irrelevant bad, I'm done right. And so we only had like more is not better. So I really appreciate that point. And then this idea of buyer enablement and at least, at least, I'm sure you could tell me there are more. And so what I'm done saying this. Tell me if you've observed a lot more or the sounds about right, but in my opinion is you're developing kind of content, messaging and value ads for a particular account like the ones we've been talking about the whole conversation. There are at least three audiences here. One is the frontline person who needs to implement, use or whatever like. They are going to be affected daytoday by this decision. Another one would be probably like the midlevel manager or the front line manager who needs not only to implement this and train it and coach it into the those frontline people. But that, you know, related but different concerns and a different value proposition essentially for whatever the product or service offering is. And then at least one more which is whoever has to, you know, sign the contract right the check, pay for it, justified internally and probably has the most at risk in terms of personal reputation and developing things that can help all of these people say yes, I see a better future with this company and their product or their service and their people. But you need to speak to those different people to get that complete picture, obviously at different stages of the relationship. But I'm sure it gets more nuanced than that. But is that approximately loosely right? Yeah, no, it totally is. Most of the content that we have developed, or even maybe tweak, depending on what a client has, is written for actual named accounts and we even had a client come to us and say, you know, we share this particular article that you created for this organization. We had a sales demo or sales conversation with them and they said to us this article felt like it was written for us, and it totally was. We just you know, we didn't. We alluded to them, we didn't call them out by name, but the article was so relevant with them that they could recognize it and you know, that's like the biggest compliment. We know we're doing something right, we know we're connecting with them, and then that's a great area and opportunity to use that particular content with accounts that are similar to that them, that are maybe not tier one like this count was. So it totally it's written for the actual account and then you can use it another way. So it's not like a one size a onetime deal and it's, you know, not relevant anymore. I love it's great example of the scale. You were talking about earliers taking those learnings and using them. Males, we're really quickly. Same thing, tactical, but let's go post sale, like what are a couple keys to improving experience at and after the point of commitment, to reduce churn or to increase the likelihood of expansion in these key accounts? So the best thing that I like to talk about, or something I think is most important, is to change the actual conversation. So don't talk about, you know, the tactical things you're doing, the you know what you're doing and the entry results achieved. Yeah, talk about it, but don't make the conversation more than that. Talk about the gaps that you saw prior to working with them, that they had, the gaps that you uniquely filled, how you're currently filling them, why you saw those gaps and you know what you've learned and lessons along the way, and then you can kind of open the conversation up into areas we see fur growth, so areas or maybe they can either expand with you or areas they can improve upon. So maybe you're only in one department of a large organization when they have six or seven that you could be helping. So have changing the conversation is supposed to benefits and results to more of total impacts. How is that challenge that you're fixing for them? How is it helping them? But how is it helping other errors of the organization? How is it helping their organization as a whole? How is it helping their customers? How... it helping their bottom line? If you change the conversation, that's going to be a strategic partner conversation versus a vendor buyer conversation. Yeah, really good. I think we also probably in this zone, assume that they might know these things and that, you know, we don't need to tell them that it was like. Now it's actually go ahead and tell it. If they do know, then that's good. That's going to be a good conversation. They can add some nuance or detail to it that you might be missing or some context, but I think we probably take for granted. Again, you know how much we can be of service or value to other people. I like this call to change the conversation as you are listening to this conversation with Christina and you really like this idea of being more personal more often. I've got two more that I know you would also enjoy. Episode One hundred eleven with Greg Segal. He is the founder and CEO of Alice, which is a gift platform that some people will fold into these more personal approaches to accounts. Again, I was episode one hundred and eleven with Greg Seagal. We call that building a personal experience into your customer experience, and he really, he and his team have really leaned into this language and are talking about Px, or personal experience, a lot more often. And then episode seventy one with Ed Brialt. He is the CMO at a premo. He is a CMO who does have BEDR SDR reporting to him and we call that conversation differentiating your brand by humanizing the experience. And so he feels like the brand that he's building is going to be created almost exclusively through the personal connections that his team members are making with their customers. In their perspective, customers in this really important emphasis on humanizing the experience in order to differentiate yourself from other people. I mean you and your team might be saying something almost identical to a competitor. You reference that earlier, Christina. A lot of the language can sound the same, but if it comes with a face, in a voice, literally or figuratively, that I can have a sense of personality, or that it's as signed as you offered like a custom written article, that it can feel that it was made just for me, that's significantly differentiating in a lot of businesses. So episode eleven with Greg Seagal, episode seventy one with that Brialt. But this is a conversation with Christina. And so, Christina, before I let you go, I would love for you to do two things for me. The first is to think or mentioned someone who has had a positive impact on your life or your career, and the second is to give a nod or a shout out to a brand or company that you appreciate for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer. All right, so thank you so much for having me on your podcast. I really appreciate it, Ethan, and I like that we were able to help, or hopefully help, sales and marketing teams rethink the interactions are having and then it's experiences they're giving prospects and customers, and I'm really honored to be listed among guests that, like you've had, these people that I have interacted with myself and that I have learned a great deal from. So Light Notice I had Daryl Praille, joss feed E, Tid capony. Those are all really cool guys that have a lot of insights, especially about making that personal connection with their customers, and I wanted to they've had business impact, positive impact on me, on my business. But also want to thank my partner, of course, Eric Ruber. He's been riding the wild roller coaster ride with me and we've overcome a lot of challenges created by, you know, Ce nineteen, so that's really awesome. And to discuss a company that's doing customer experience right or what you mentioned px. So like maybe prospect experience or personal experience. I want to share a quick customer story that I think is really relevant. We had worked with Schneider National, which is a threepl with the orange trucks. They had an account that was really unresponsive for five plus years because they were using that generic messaging in their in their particular industry, that's really common. So it was around better people, bet our process, better technology. I've heard this in a lot of organizations and assure you have to.

So they were trying to get some traction with sigma, which is a subsidiary of another organization, and they had heard that particular Schneider story from the competition because it sounded the same. So they weren't seeing gaps and personal impacts or driving the change. They didn't see themselves in that story that was being told. So they ignored any kind of outreach. They had tried social, they had tried email, phone. I think they had even gone in person when, you know, a couple years ago and that was a thing. So this was all from sales and marketing. It was multiple people trying to, you know, gain some headway into this. So because this content and messaging didn't have any commercial impact on the buyer. They were really getting ignored. So what we did is we looked at their linked in profile. We looked at, you know, who the connections they had and who they knew and the organization and they had really great connections to the key decision makers. So the SVP of sales at Schneider was connected to Sigma, this company they were going after their vp of logistics on Linkedin, but sales wasn't having the right messaging and content and right conversation for that human to human buying connection that we've talked about. So we redesigned their profiles and the content to show how they were mid market organizations or being under serve which is what sigma was, and how their tms, which is transportation management system, was not really useful for them. So we showed sigma how they were being treated almost like a middle child because they weren't big enough to be helped, helped by the big guys but not small enough for the smaller solutions. So we talked about their gaps, their impacts across their entire organization, from supply chain the PNL employees, service for performance and, you know, customers. That's a big thing for logistics. So ultimately we created these buyer centric profiles and content to make this human team and connection, and they increase their relevance with sigma and they started to pull business through and created a six month sales cycle when usually twelve to eighteen months, and they became an account that was worth about two to six million, depending how long they were able to retain them as a client. But this was all because of changing the conversation to speak to the buyer as human. Love it. It brings together so many of the ideas that you've already shared with us here, from the you know, updating your linked in profile to really speaking specifically to that kind can even see an article written to you know, are you too big for this but too small for that kind of a scenario? I don't know exactly how that was executed, but so many things you shared there came to life in that story. It's a great outcome, Christina. I've really enjoyed the conversation and if someone is listening right now, they obviously did too. So where would you send them to connect with you? I assume linkedin's probably a great place. Where can they learn more about personal ABM, etc. Where would you send people to follow up on this? Definitely send me a personal message on Linkedin. You know why we should connect, why we should add value to each other or how we could add value to each other. Christina had a MEO or Darmilla, and definitely check out personally abmcom mom and we also have a podcast stop the sales drop, and that's a community full of articles, videos, podcasts. Ethan's going to be on it as well and suggest people check that out as well. Awesome. Really quickly, what is the sales drop? What is the sales drop? Basically, why are people not why are they following a falling out of the funnel or kind of getting stuck in the fall? So that's when you kind of like drop the ball. Awesome, very good. I look forward to US spending more time with you and conversation. I look forward to sharing this with listeners and I appreciate your time so much. Thank you. Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast...

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