The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 142 · 7 months ago

142. Don't Just Personalize, Get Personal w/ Kristina Jaramillo


When marketing speaks to one-to-many, we’re addressing industries. When we speak to one-to-few, we’re addressing personas. But personal relevance in one-to-one messaging means that we speak to how unconsidered gaps will affect that individual specifically.

In this episode, I interview Kristina Jaramillo, Founding Partner at Personal ABM, about the difference between personalized and personal ABM — and why the key is CX.

Kristina talked with me about:

- What putting the customer first really means

- How you should be using LinkedIn

- Personalized vs. personal ABM

- Who to target and how to target them

- The relationship between ABM and CX

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When companies are doing it best,I think, is they're putting the customer first, and I know everyone alwayssays their customer centric, but you actually have to prove it. The singlemost important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experiencefor your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte.Winning accounts, protecting accounts and expanding accounts not with a personalized approach, butrather with a truly personal approach. That's what today's guest helps her clients withevery day as president and founding partner of personal ABM. A decade ago,she left the corporate world on this entrepreneurial journey and now focuses on account basedmarketing to produce sales conversations. She's helping software companies and supply chain firms Eddiepersonal layer to their approach in order to win, protect and expand high valueaccounts. Christina Hawramio, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you somuch for having me then I'm excited to have this conversation. It's something I'mreally fashionate about. Yeah, me too. I really enjoy the work that youdo. I did not attend the event that you put on last year, but I saw a lot about it, read a lot about it. Ilisten new couple podcast where you talk, where you were talking about it,and the conversation we're going to have today is right in zone for whatwe're trying to do here on the podcast, which is kind of reduced silos andcree better conversations and better alignment, not to just to get better results, but in order to serve our customers better. And I know you've gota lot to offer on this, so will get straight into it. WhenI say customer experience, Christina, what does that mean to you? Allright, customer experience to me is also goes with handinhand with prospect experience,but it's every interaction that sales, marketing, account management, anyone who's fire facinghas, and that means the interactions are having on social interactions, eitheremail or even live communications or now you know, virtual communications, and howthey feel after the interaction. There's a quote from Tiffany Bova that I reallylike. She's now at sales force. I think she said this before,that she mentioned how you sell and market matters. Your sales and marketing processis are matter, but how prospects and customers feel when they engage with youmatters more, and that last part is really the best part, I thinkof that sentence. How prospects, or quote, how prospects and customers feelwhen they engage with you, matters more than anything else. But I'm seeinga lot of sales and marketing not focusing enough of their time on interactions withprospects and with customers because they're really campaign based and I think it's they forgetthat in most cases you have one chance to win protector expand accounts. Onecommunication, missfire, one wrong interaction, one bad prospect or customer experience isgoing to have a detrimental effect. It's going to result in unresponsiveness, maybean action, maybe they just let their contract with you expire and that's theend of it. But a lot of sales and marketing account and customer teamsare traditionally speaking at industries and at volumes of account just to get scale withvery little, zero relevant. So when firms engage in account based approach.They often speak at accounts with the same messaging and don't consider that value isdifferent from person to person within the same account and they're not speaking to thepeople within the target accounts to try to create that human bond and not directlygoing to the decision makers, which is really important, and influencers with theinsights that are specific to their gaps, their impacts and content that speaking tothem specifically. I really appreciate how quickly and specifically you went straight to theindividual there. I think that really sets up a lot of we're will bein conversation together today. But I also love that quote from Tiffany Bova andI agree that's been a theme here in these questions and responses right off thetop, which is how we make people...

...feel matters as much or more thananything else, and I think it's because, from a scientific standpoint, emotions driveboth memory and motivation, and so if there is going to be anyaction, it is going to be emotionally inspired, and so this ability tomake people feel positively or to feel something specific to your product or serve usthe outcome the nature of your relationship together. I think you're setting yourself up tobe remarkable in some way and to actually drive behavior and at to yourpoint, when we're just like blasting things out because it feels good on areport to have bigger numbers, that we could tend to lose track of howwe're making people feel in that process. Is Something we at bombomb called digitalpollution and you know, we are polluters ourselves at times. It's not aperfect process, but I think it's important to keep in mind. So we'retrying to raise that conversation. So, before we get too much farther,I would love for you to share with people what you're doing at personal ABM. You know who's your I. Ideal Customer there. I already mentioned twoof the primary groups that you serve, and what problems are you solving forthose people? Sure, sure. So. Personally AB M, if anyone's notfamiliar with ABM, personal account base marketing. So we work with SASS, technology, supply chain and other read to be firms that sell into theenterprise that are looking to create six or seven figure deals. And our clientsare not looking forarly, it's they want more revenue, they want faster revenuegrowth. With tier one accounts, because we are only focused on revenue andtier when accounts and Howard getting those conversations to revenue. So many ABM programsor companies that engage in ABM kind of focus on filling the pipeline with engagedaccounts. But we focus on four different areas that tend to create the bestresults. So the first one is accounts that are not in market yet.They're stuck in status quo. They're not responding to general pain point messaging thatmaybe sales and marketing sending out. So they need more personal relevance, adifferentiated prospect experience where you work with them to create that buyer vision or buyingvision. Typically that I'll also create a larger deal size. We also workwith a counts that are previously showed intent but for some reason became engaged.Typically we see it's because they don't see themselves in the story that sales andmarketing is telling and that emotional connection is not being made and or a businesscase was not proven. A third area that we work with is counts thatare stuck in the middle or the buy bottom of the buying journey. Soin many cases sales and marketing where may be unable to create experience for theinternal discussions. They might not be privy to. So they were an ambileto make that or create or drive buying consensus. They didn't put buyer enablementprogram in place. And then the last area that we work with is existingcounts are at risk or existing accounts that are not expanding because they're having tacticaldiscussions with sales and marketing around activities completed and general benefits and not driving astrategic conversation that's maybe engaging with the decisionmaker. So the VP's and the C suiteawesome. I think we'll get into some specific I will ask of yousome specific tips for how to create more emotions, specifically mid to bottom offunnel and also perhaps on that expansion side. But before we do, like howdid you what was the process? It doesn't surprise me that you havea very well defined ICP right like mid market come, but he's that sellthe enterprise six to seven figure deals and these particular industries and for you it'sprimarily SASS and supply chain. What was your process of discovering that? Likeis this something that you've been focused on for eight years, or is thissomething you've been focused on for the past few years? Like what was theprocess of getting so specific with who you know you can serve best? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, for starters we've always been be tobbut we had started with small to medium size companies, even, you know, under five people companies. But we realized that the platform that we usedhappens to be Linkedin, it's just our platform of choice, is really whereyou could get with buyers and engage with byres and we kind of realized that, you know, there were a lot...

...of technology people, there were alot of software people using Linkedin to learn, to gain valuable insights to improve theirjobs, improve their their their roles. So that's how we kind of figurethat, you know, tech and and SASS would work really well,and that has been a focus for at least eight years. And supply chainhas only been maybe the last five years or so, but because we realizeit was such an industry that had a really hard time differentiating themselves from oneto another. Supply chain, logistics, three pl that kind of space isvery everyone sounds the same, so it's very easy to differentiate, but noone's actually doing it. So we kind of were brought into that arena andwe figured that it worked really well. We got some awesome results. Wekind of expanded from they're awesome. We're to talk about sales and marketing,we're talk about ABM, but just staying on the scheme of customer experience inparticular in the way that you defined it. When you think about some of theclients that you've helped, you know, build these various campaigns for various stagesof relationship, all with the revenue orientation, what are some things thatthe best companies that you work with do well with regard to producing positive feelingswith people and or what are a lot of companies missing here? All right, so when companies are doing at best, I think, is they're putting thecustomer first, and I know everyone always says their customer centric, butyou actually have to prove it and one of the best ways to do it, I mentioned linkedin before, is to go to a bunch of salespeople's profileson Linkedin and see who it's written for. Is it written for them to geta new sales position or is it written for the customer? They're actuallylooking to serve the customers they're actually they're serving now clients that they've helped recentlyand sharing stories and that's like a big, big area of focus when we workwith clients is that's the first thing that we try to fix because,no matter how you're trying to get to access a prospect or a customer,if you're engaging with them and they see the first thing that you want toengage with them is all about you, all about your quota, all aboutyour sales achievements, it's kind of off putting and they don't want to beanother number. They don't want to be it's another cog in your wheel toget you to your next promotion or next president's Club. They want to knowthat you have the experience to help them the value that you're going to givethem. So that's where we start and I think the companies that are doingthat and actually putting the customer first, on Linkedin, but also in thecontent they're sharing, the messaging they're putting out, any kind of interaction andto treating every little touch point with a customer prospect as a mini sales conversation. Those two companies that are doing it well and doing it right, becauseI talked about earlier. One communication missfire can lead to a deal that's getsstuck or it just goes unresponsive. So I think that's that's what I saythat the best companies are doing. I love that tip. So for folksfor listening, there's a sixty two back button for a reason. That's soyou can go sixty two back, sixty seconds back, right now and putthis on your to do list for today or tomorrow. Look at your linkedinprofile, if you're using linkedin degenerate business and degenerate sales conversations. Look atwho it's written for. Who is the about section written for? What areyour bullet points under your role? I love this idea, Christina, ofsetting yourself up as an expert oriented toward the problems are opportunities faced by yourprimary customers, and so it seems so intuitive. But I would guess thatif I did this across some of the people that I know, people whoI like, friends of mine, I would guess that a lot of themreally are a lot of the you know, not necessarily a bad person for wantingto prop yourself up and look really good. It's here the point.It looks a heck of a lot more attractive to a potential employer than itdoes to a potential customer, which I think is a really interesting dynamic andit kind of implied in your response there, and I think this is true ofyou. I would expect that it is. So I'd love for youto share anything on it. You know,...

I feel like what you're setting uphere is the idea of making yourself available as a, you know,to use a common phrase, trusted advisor, to use a less common phrase,you know, kind of an industry expert type of person, or perhapseven a teacher for this particular type of person or industry or roll. Talkabout that dynamic a little bit. I mean, obviously I think the bestsales are being done in partnership, perhaps with an educational bent, with aneffort to help and serve, rather than again just to make your way toPresident's Club, which is probably a nice thing. It's probably going somewhere nice. It is probably actually going this year. You probably are getting out a planesometime soon, like last year. But talk about that dynamic a littlebit, because I really heard that in your response of what your linked inprofile looks like. I think you know it's no fault of anyone. Ithink they just a sales people and a marking people. Don't think about itthis way. I mean linked there was kind of set up initially to bekind of like a job networking site, but it's totally evolved and I thinkthat if you make with sure that it's written for you're more of a teacher, you're more of someone that they can learn learn from. I'm going tobe I know personally and I know from my experience with clients and things,that people are going to be more receptive to an invite to connect, toa nurture message, to maybe even a call later down the line if theyknow that they have learned something from you. You've added value to them, you'veshared content with them that is relevant to them and helps them solve achallenge that they're having, even if it gets them a little insight, littlecommercial insight, which is really important, you know, helps them think ofdifferently of how they're actually doing their role on a day to day basis,as opposed to saying you connected with me now I'm going to try to getyou on a demo, I'm going to try to get you on a salescall within fifteen minutes of septing accepting my connection. You know, here's mycounterlink. Let's get on the call. You have to actually, you know, warm that conversation up and if you can say that just by looking atyour profile or just by the content that you're sharing or any post that you'reputting out there, if it feels like you're communicating, to share ute withrelevant value and give an actual intention, people are going to be more responsive. I mean last year linked into study, I believe, right after maybe afew months into the see nineteen. They show that organizations were seeing aboutforty four percent report insignificant, in a significant decline in our responsiveness. Andyou know, a lot of people were blaming it on the pandemic and thechange of the economy and the change of the environment, and I think itwas part of the issue, but I think it's just been a downward trendthat was exacerbated by this and you know it's because people are not putting themselvesin the buyer or customer shoes and saying what would I want from a seller? Do I want to actually have a buy and selling relationship or do Iwant a partner teacher kind of relationship someone I can learn from awesome. Ithink probably the biggest struggle is people developing their voice. You know, Ithink we say that people find their voice, develop it. And so I wouldjust say to any salesperson or market or listening that that is in this reallyany revenue professional. When you think about what Christina just offered, you havea lot more to share than you may even recognize because, especially if youhave a really good focus. However, you think about it, persona ICEP, if you're talking to a variety of people who all share a set ofcriteria together, you have a lot to teach other people who fit two orthree of those criteria and it's just a matter of offering it out for conversation. Sometimes asking a question you don't it doesn't you don't have to be thefirst person ever to say something for it to be useful and you don't haveto say it better than anyone else. Is just really starting the conversation atall is something that not enough people are doing. Kind of to your pointthere. While we're on Linkedin, something I loved about the about section ofyour linkedin profile. And I'm just going to read it. It's just oneline and then we'll talk about a couple different aspects of it. So theline is this. One too many marketing drives awareness, but it's too impersonalto move hearts and minds, and so we can take this one step ata time. But I think what's in... is this idea of personal versuspersonalized, which I would love to get your thoughts and observations and opinions on. And the other piece that I'd like to get to, and it probablyconnects back to the field language that we were talking about, in your definitionof customer experience or Tiffany Bova's, or subcombination of yours and hers, istwo hearts and minds peace, this idea that we need to speak to wholepeople and not just to, you know, some rational argument collecting part of someone'sbrain. So talk about one to many marketing and why it's too inpersonal. Yeah, so I think the issue that I find with it andwhy it's too in personal, as one too many marketing speaks to general assumptions, general pain points. So when you speak to many, you speak atindustries, which means there's very little personalization you're hoping that you're going to catchsomeone that's pain point is at ten on the pain scale so they'll want totake action now. But you know the chances of finding someone that their painpoint is attend on the pain scales like finding a needle in a haystack.So it's making it much harder for you as a sales are marketing or customerleader. And in many cases the pain point is, you know, lowon the scale for people and you're just competing with a number of other priorities. And another thing with responding to general assumptions when as one too many andpain points is probably very similar to what your competitors are doing. So thereyou're also going to sound the same. So that's the problem with with onetoo many and not being able to get as personal as as you can.So the once to few you speak to personas within market accounts, you speakto the industries, that you're personalizing it to industry, but you're still speakingat accounts, you're still speaking at the buyers rather than to them. Soyou're missing that personal relevance, you know, and in many cases with that approachyou focus on what target accounts are searching for so maybe using intent dataor maybe you're, you know, using other other technology to help you figurethat out. But you know, we spoke about this before, is personalrelevance and personalization is very different. When you're personally relevant, you go beyondtailoring content and messaging for what accounts are searching for. You beyond campaigns basedon generalized personas and assumptions and pain points. You speak at gaps, especially unconsideredgaps, that the person might have and the personal impacts to them intheir role, not just for the organization. How is it going to actually impactthem specifically, and you challenge prospects, specific assumptions and you speak to theirdomain in a way that they haven't thought of. They have an appreciatedthey have it may be considered and you show that you understand their specific usecase and suggest a new way of solving their problems and you can reframe howthey think about their business and how they operate. So there's a couple ofthings that you're going to be able to uncover when you do this. What'sbehind the prospects intent? So if they were searching for something and you foundthey were using a keyword that's relevant to you, what's behind it? What'sthat million dollar headache? And, you know, both on the account levels, so their organization, but also on their personal level. How is thatheadache affecting them? What's going on within the organization at the different divisions?That can impact in operational excellence? How can impact customers? How can iteven impact their PNL, depending who you're talking to? And another thing Iconsider is what are the account specific or competitor focus gaps that are not beingconsidered? What have they not thought of and how those personal impacts, youknow, being maybe either not considered or but they you know, might bea bigger problem than they thought. How are they being underestimated? That personalconnection that we've been talking to with the human buyers is how you're going toshift those hearts, shift minds and, more importantly, shift the wallets withthe biggest part of the market, which is about sixty percent, that arestuck in status quo, and also those that have become disengaged because they're not, you know, they're not seeing their story or themselves in the story.That's how we were able to help US supply chain and Tech Company, createtwo million dollar closes, protect at risk accounts and grow margins and even reverseno or world will talk about this later... six months, kind of positionand expand even accounts within territories and departments because we were taking that very personal, relevant one to one approach. Why do so few like it? Seemskind of obvious to me. I think the answer to my question is kindof obvious to so I'll probably ask it with an answer, but then,like you, take it somewhere else, like if we know intuitively as buyersand even as sellers, like as buyers ourselves and as sellers, we knowwhat has worked in the past. We know that the more personal we canbe, truly one to one, like bespoke communication, actually thinking about someonein a seat in a company, in an industry, instead of everyone inseats that look like this, that or the other, we know that that'smore effective. We know that it makes people feel better because they feel seenand appreciated and helped and served. Probably if you're doing it well, whydoes this feel like a revelation, like why? Why aren't more people doingis is it simply because I need scale, I need bigger numbers, I needa fatter pipeline, even though I'm converting it at fifteen percent, likewhy are why aren't more people do why isn't this the default? In yourexperience? So in my experience the first thing that people say, well,you can't scale that. And the idea is not to necessarily scale ABM,but scale the learnings from ABM and when you take a personal abim approach.So that's the reason we've also niched ourselves. Only deal with's here when it counts, because this is a time consuming approach. This takes a lot ofwork, takes a lot of manpower, it takes a lot of research,so that you're only going to do use it with accounts that are going tobe six seven figure plus, because they're going to be larger accounts. Butstay let's say you pick, you know, two or three dozen top tier whenaccounts you're going to run and these kind of ABM programs. With whateveryou learn, whatever insights you gain, whatever knowledge you get from you knowwhat's working, what's not working, you can scale that out to tier twoand tier three. But I think because we are I know marketing as awhole. I'm sure this goes across other parts of the organization. Are reallyfocused on building a pipeline, top of the funnel, filling it, fillingit, but not necessarily focused on the quality and where those leads going.Are they actually going all the way through to revenue? Are they getting stuckin the middle? Are they not even going past the top? So becauseit's such a you know, niched or it's harder approach, people, Ithink, get intimidated. But I think if you implement it that way andlook at it through that kind of Lens, that it's not for every account,then it will be easier to kind of use it and adopt it toaspects of it, to other parts of your marketing and sales. I loveit. It it's probably the answer to something I observed in, you know, preparing for this. I saw some of your case studies where, youknow, win rates are sixty, seventy, seventy five percent, you know where. I don't know what the averages for companies like these, but Iwould guess it's probably closer to twenty percent. And I would bet that that tensionis right where you just were, which is quality versus quantity. Imean, we need to figure out both. We can't just you know, intheory. You know, you could just keep focusing on quality, quality, quality, quality. So you've got a couple accounts and you can convertedninety percent rate but still miss the number. It's so is that the key inthe tension is is more emphasis on quality, probably disqualifying more accounts soonerin order to increase increase win rates, which then allows us probably to putmore of our limited time and energy and effort, and human time in particular, and other resources we invest in developing these relationships in these accounts. Wecan put them where they probably matter most. Yet absolutely, and it's and Idon't want to just want to go back. It doesn't it. This, personally, am is not an all or nothing approach. It's in conjunctionwith campaigns because you're always going to need...

...them. But the reason the hotwin rates for us or so much highers because we're actually named accounts. Soour clients will say we have a PNG account that we want to protect orwe want to get a new logo and Oracle. We know is a goodfit, and this is why so every stage of the the program, ofthe ABM program, we're looking at it so closely to see if it actuallyis a fit, because it just because it was a fit last week doesn'tmeet. It still a fit this week? Should we still be taking this kindof focus with them? So it's almost like we're looking to poke holesin it as to why it might not work. What is that issue that'scoming about today? Do we find out that they're, you know, freezingspending for the next six months? Did we find out that they're they justgot a whole new round of funding? There's all different things that can happen. So because they're so niched and so targeted, that's why, you know, the win rates are so much higher. And going back to that quote Imentioned about Tiffany Bova, how you sell a market matters. So yoursales and prodd marketing process are going to matter when it comes to this.So how you're going to go back to making that prospect feel when they engagewith you? The key is is the experience that you deliver. So doesyour profile, does your content, does your messaging speak to these target accounts, the human buyers within the accounts? Is there a real intention behind everyinteraction, every communication, every message, every article you send? Are youhelping prospects see their gaps and impacts at their company level down to their divisionrank, personal financial all the way down to customer levels, so that youcan help them create that buying concess consensus internally and are you enabling customers withthe confidence they need to make that decision? Because everyone knows no decision is alwayseasier than making a decision is particular if you know it's a large investment. Yeah, I could have, should have, would have done this maybeten or fifteen minutes ago, but there's so much groundwork to be laid.I'd love free to just to talk about a BM in general. It's obviouslyit's obviously account based marketing, but maybe speak to it a couple levels.I think for those that don't really know anything about it but have seen itthat you know, it definitely feels buzzwordy. I think for people who aren't necessarilyin sales or marketing, you have some passing familiarity with it, likemaybe their team members and sales or marketing are talking about ABM. I thinkfor people who have a basic understanding, they might think that it's just likehey, I'm going to subscribe to some software and run some targeted advertising whereI'm only running these ads at these accounts. You've obviously gotten too, a lotmore nuance there. But for the sake of getting clear on it,and particularly for my interest in your own philosophy on it, how do youtalk about abm like he's because you said, like what you've been talking about isnot the only way to do it. It's not the only aspect of it. It's kind of like a both and like what are some of thelayers? are some of the approaches or, you know, where does software andtech fit in with a BM? What is share anything you have onaccount based marketing in general? Why is it? Why does it feel likeit's new? Why does it feel like it's a buzz word? Yeah,it totally is a buzzword. It's a huge buzz word. I don't thinkthat it's new. I think it just got be given a name. Soaccount I've heard it called account base marketing, Acount Bay sales, account based strategy, whatever it is. It's just going after, you know, targetedactual accounts. But at a lot of people, a lot of sales andmarketing teams are looking into it because it's been so widely used and they're seeseeing, you know, some businesses that are taking an interesting approach or takinga more strategic approach or seeing significant business impact with ABM. And I thinkthe ones that aren't is because they they you know, they're turned ABM ittoo tactical. So it's become a count based awareness, account based advertising,like you mentioned, even account basically generation programs, especially when they have theaddition of a BM of technologies like terminus and demand base, which are awesometools, but they're only a part of the strategy. So, you know, the technologies are a great you know, in some of our clients even usethese platforms, but again, only tools, and ABM is so muchmore than that. It's not just tools,...'s not a tactic, it's anactual business strategy. Is a business strategy which is ensuring accounts that wouldhave the greatest impact actually get to revenue and existing counts lead to even morerevenue. So that that's the way I see that. There's a big difference. So this means that the sales, marketing and account management need to worktogether. So this isn't just a marketing thing, this isn't just a salesthing, it's the whole organization. You know, they need to work togetherto create the desired experience, especially with the tier one accounts versus worrying aboutscaling, because I you know, I'm sure everyone's heard this stat that eightypercent of your revenue comes from twenty percent of your accounts. So if we'rereally focusing on scaling, your automatically impactating the interactions they have and the experienceof prospects and clients have, and it might not be the one that youwant. So you can't scale personal you know, it's really impossible to scalepersonal interactions and personal experiences. What you do is you scale what you learnfrom applying those strategies to tier one, like I mentioned earlier, to theother aspects of your outreach. Love it. It was just kind of envisioning thisidea of sales and marketing being much more involved post sale with their timeand energy, not just to learn to do better on the on the frontside of the relationship, but we're to be a value and service to accountmanagement, taking what they learned and what worked precommitment to apply to in therelationships developed, to apply that post sale in order to turn your good accountsinto fantastic accounts, just to continue solving problems for them or to solve thesame problem from more people in that organization, all the other ways we expand.You said revenue a few times there. I would love for you. Obviouslyrevenue is the goal. If you spend any time on Linkedin, likeyou and I do, like probably most listeners do, you hear things likesales and marketing alignment. You hear things like the mql is dead and weshould just throw it in the garbage and it's all revenue, revenue, like. There's a lot here and you can offer like legit Info, or offeropinion or offer provocation, do whatever you want with this, but obviously revenueis the ultimate goal. I personally feel like there are precursors to revenue thatwe need to be tracking, that do need to be on the board,that we do need to be talking about. We might over worship them, itmight make us a little bit too siloed in our thinking if we overfocuson these things. But for you, like what are some metrics that areobviously vanity metrics to you, and or we're some really good, important metricsthat are precursors to revenue that we should pay attention to, no matter whoon Linkedin post about it being dead. Yeah, so vanity metrics, andI know some people are going to disagree with me in this, clicks ona post, likes on a post, comments on a book the Post.That don't add value or actual engagement. So anything that says great post,great idea, thanks for sharing that to me doesn't really count for much.I understand why marketing tends to track it. It just not something that I amin concerned with. So that type of thing, traffic to certain particulararticles might not be or certain particular landing pages might not be on my topten. I think things that are more important are. Are we shortening thesale cycle time? Are we in proving wind rates? Are we growing dealsizes as a whole? Are we reducing customer turn are we increasing customer lifetimevalue? And I know pipeline is a big thing, but are those pipelineconversion converting to revenue with key accounts? You know, are your ABM programsworking? That would be a great way to track it. Are you expandinginto New Territories? Are you expanding accounts? And then, obviously overall revenue growthis always something that is really important and I think something that probably getsoverlooked is the interactions that lead to it. So, are you getting further downthe line? Are you engaging with a champion? Are you engaging witha decision maker? Are they getting more people involved in the conversation? Areyou able to, you know, as a sale seller or marketer, customersuccess person, are you able to open...

...that door, get more buy inand, you know, like if you're looking to expand an account, areyou having engagement with people other than the you know, the operations people orthe people that are using your service or or tool? Are you getting buyin from their decisionmakers? They're people that are actually going to say whether theyexpand with you or, you know, continue their contract with you. Loveit. I love this focus on relationships and somehow, obviously keeping really goodnotes on it, but perhaps even making a bigger deal out of it,you know, in terms of some of the boards that we use for reportingand understanding and storytelling internally, this idea of how many relationships, like directconnections, have we made, and did we establish them ourselves or we introducedto these additional people, like did we earn the trust of this person sothey open the door to these other people? Kind of a scenario? I reallylike the way that you're you're thinking about that and talking about it.Let's get really tactical for a minute. What are what are a couple keythings you think that could help people accelerate to revenue in middle bottom of funnel, acquisition side, middle to bottle of funnel? Okay, I think whathappens is that a lot of sales and marketing leaders are not that working handinhand. So recently I was on an on my podcast that you're going to beon Ethan, with Cassander Jowitt. She's path factories senior director of marketing.She mentioned that she compares the buyers journey to the game that's a kids gamecalled the floor is lava on that true people familiar with it, to NetflixTV show. Anyway, you're supposed to get from one part of the roomto another and you have to jump on it for an obstacles, take differentjumping points and not fall into the lava. So it's the same kind of thingwith buyers. You want to get into that safe harbor. You wantto make sure that they don't fall into the lava. Halfway through their journey. They're jumping from one rock to another and so on. So you kindof lay that path that's very clear, or try to, but in manycases it's not clear. It's really you know, they take different twist andturns and campaigns and messaging reinforce the needs, wants and ideas of the champion,but maybe they don't speak to the team, they don't speak to thedecision maker. Content is missing to for and, you know, to supportthe internal conversation experience, something that you know, sales and marketing might notbe included on. Buyer enablement is a key thing of why these accounts aregetting stuck in the middle and and bottom of the funnel. I think theABM program for example, might lack buyer enablement. I was doing some researchand I saw a study from Gardner back in two thousand and nineteen that overwhelmedtheir be tob buyers are really overwhelmed and their face facing a crisis of competenceand they're struggling to make large scale purchasing decisions. And the actual root causeof the research fround was it's not that they are having issues with the suppliersofferings or the solutions, it's how they perceive themselves. They're having a reallyhard time in having confidence to make the right decision, and I think it'sbecause there's so much information out there that they are bombarded with it. Maybesales and marketing is just pushing out they kind of can't decipher it. Sothey either are left with confusion no decision, they fall into the lava because theyjust don't know what to do. And this, this study was,interestingly enough, done before. Buyers have had the world turn turned upside downin two thousand and twenty. So I think it's just going to get amplifiednow that we are, you know, in today's digital environment, but pushingout more messaging and content and not pushing out messaging and content that actually hasintention. I think that's the most important part, is that if you're usingcontent and messaging an intentional way, it's going to give people, and buyersespecially, more clarity in their decisions versus, you know, taking the easy wayout, which is no decision. Yeah, there's so much I appreciateabout what you offered there, but two things in particular. One, thisidea of more content isn't better. I mean the the every time you reachout to me, you're training me to...

...engage with or to ignore what you'resending me and if it's if it's good, I'll keep engaging. If it ifyou have three goods and then a bad, I might still engage withthe next one, hoping that it's going to be another good, but ifit's irrelevant, distant, irrelevant bad, I'm done right. And so weonly had like more is not better. So I really appreciate that point.And then this idea of buyer enablement and at least, at least, I'msure you could tell me there are more. And so what I'm done saying this. Tell me if you've observed a lot more or the sounds about right, but in my opinion is you're developing kind of content, messaging and valueads for a particular account like the ones we've been talking about the whole conversation. There are at least three audiences here. One is the frontline person who needsto implement, use or whatever like. They are going to be affected daytodayby this decision. Another one would be probably like the midlevel manager orthe front line manager who needs not only to implement this and train it andcoach it into the those frontline people. But that, you know, relatedbut different concerns and a different value proposition essentially for whatever the product or serviceoffering is. And then at least one more which is whoever has to,you know, sign the contract right the check, pay for it, justifiedinternally and probably has the most at risk in terms of personal reputation and developingthings that can help all of these people say yes, I see a betterfuture with this company and their product or their service and their people. Butyou need to speak to those different people to get that complete picture, obviouslyat different stages of the relationship. But I'm sure it gets more nuanced thanthat. But is that approximately loosely right? Yeah, no, it totally is. Most of the content that we have developed, or even maybe tweak, depending on what a client has, is written for actual named accounts andwe even had a client come to us and say, you know, weshare this particular article that you created for this organization. We had a salesdemo or sales conversation with them and they said to us this article felt likeit was written for us, and it totally was. We just you know, we didn't. We alluded to them, we didn't call them out by name, but the article was so relevant with them that they could recognize itand you know, that's like the biggest compliment. We know we're doing somethingright, we know we're connecting with them, and then that's a great area andopportunity to use that particular content with accounts that are similar to that them, that are maybe not tier one like this count was. So it totallyit's written for the actual account and then you can use it another way.So it's not like a one size a onetime deal and it's, you know, not relevant anymore. I love it's great example of the scale. Youwere talking about earliers taking those learnings and using them. Males, we're reallyquickly. Same thing, tactical, but let's go post sale, like whatare a couple keys to improving experience at and after the point of commitment,to reduce churn or to increase the likelihood of expansion in these key accounts?So the best thing that I like to talk about, or something I thinkis most important, is to change the actual conversation. So don't talk about, you know, the tactical things you're doing, the you know what you'redoing and the entry results achieved. Yeah, talk about it, but don't makethe conversation more than that. Talk about the gaps that you saw priorto working with them, that they had, the gaps that you uniquely filled,how you're currently filling them, why you saw those gaps and you knowwhat you've learned and lessons along the way, and then you can kind of openthe conversation up into areas we see fur growth, so areas or maybethey can either expand with you or areas they can improve upon. So maybeyou're only in one department of a large organization when they have six or seventhat you could be helping. So have changing the conversation is supposed to benefitsand results to more of total impacts. How is that challenge that you're fixingfor them? How is it helping them? But how is it helping other errorsof the organization? How is it helping their organization as a whole?How is it helping their customers? How... it helping their bottom line?If you change the conversation, that's going to be a strategic partner conversation versusa vendor buyer conversation. Yeah, really good. I think we also probablyin this zone, assume that they might know these things and that, youknow, we don't need to tell them that it was like. Now it'sactually go ahead and tell it. If they do know, then that's good. That's going to be a good conversation. They can add some nuance or detailto it that you might be missing or some context, but I thinkwe probably take for granted. Again, you know how much we can beof service or value to other people. I like this call to change theconversation as you are listening to this conversation with Christina and you really like thisidea of being more personal more often. I've got two more that I knowyou would also enjoy. Episode One hundred eleven with Greg Segal. He isthe founder and CEO of Alice, which is a gift platform that some peoplewill fold into these more personal approaches to accounts. Again, I was episodeone hundred and eleven with Greg Seagal. We call that building a personal experienceinto your customer experience, and he really, he and his team have really leanedinto this language and are talking about Px, or personal experience, alot more often. And then episode seventy one with Ed Brialt. He isthe CMO at a premo. He is a CMO who does have BEDR SDRreporting to him and we call that conversation differentiating your brand by humanizing the experience. And so he feels like the brand that he's building is going to becreated almost exclusively through the personal connections that his team members are making with theircustomers. In their perspective, customers in this really important emphasis on humanizing theexperience in order to differentiate yourself from other people. I mean you and yourteam might be saying something almost identical to a competitor. You reference that earlier, Christina. A lot of the language can sound the same, but ifit comes with a face, in a voice, literally or figuratively, thatI can have a sense of personality, or that it's as signed as youoffered like a custom written article, that it can feel that it was madejust for me, that's significantly differentiating in a lot of businesses. So episodeeleven with Greg Seagal, episode seventy one with that Brialt. But this isa conversation with Christina. And so, Christina, before I let you go, I would love for you to do two things for me. The firstis to think or mentioned someone who has had a positive impact on your lifeor your career, and the second is to give a nod or a shoutout to a brand or company that you appreciate for the experience that they deliverfor you as a customer. All right, so thank you so much for havingme on your podcast. I really appreciate it, Ethan, and Ilike that we were able to help, or hopefully help, sales and marketingteams rethink the interactions are having and then it's experiences they're giving prospects and customers, and I'm really honored to be listed among guests that, like you've had, these people that I have interacted with myself and that I have learned agreat deal from. So Light Notice I had Daryl Praille, joss feed E, Tid capony. Those are all really cool guys that have a lot ofinsights, especially about making that personal connection with their customers, and I wantedto they've had business impact, positive impact on me, on my business.But also want to thank my partner, of course, Eric Ruber. He'sbeen riding the wild roller coaster ride with me and we've overcome a lot ofchallenges created by, you know, Ce nineteen, so that's really awesome.And to discuss a company that's doing customer experience right or what you mentioned px. So like maybe prospect experience or personal experience. I want to share aquick customer story that I think is really relevant. We had worked with SchneiderNational, which is a threepl with the orange trucks. They had an accountthat was really unresponsive for five plus years because they were using that generic messagingin their in their particular industry, that's really common. So it was aroundbetter people, bet our process, better technology. I've heard this in alot of organizations and assure you have to.

So they were trying to get sometraction with sigma, which is a subsidiary of another organization, and theyhad heard that particular Schneider story from the competition because it sounded the same.So they weren't seeing gaps and personal impacts or driving the change. They didn'tsee themselves in that story that was being told. So they ignored any kindof outreach. They had tried social, they had tried email, phone.I think they had even gone in person when, you know, a coupleyears ago and that was a thing. So this was all from sales andmarketing. It was multiple people trying to, you know, gain some headway intothis. So because this content and messaging didn't have any commercial impact onthe buyer. They were really getting ignored. So what we did is we lookedat their linked in profile. We looked at, you know, whothe connections they had and who they knew and the organization and they had reallygreat connections to the key decision makers. So the SVP of sales at Schneiderwas connected to Sigma, this company they were going after their vp of logisticson Linkedin, but sales wasn't having the right messaging and content and right conversationfor that human to human buying connection that we've talked about. So we redesignedtheir profiles and the content to show how they were mid market organizations or beingunder serve which is what sigma was, and how their tms, which istransportation management system, was not really useful for them. So we showed sigmahow they were being treated almost like a middle child because they weren't big enoughto be helped, helped by the big guys but not small enough for thesmaller solutions. So we talked about their gaps, their impacts across their entireorganization, from supply chain the PNL employees, service for performance and, you know, customers. That's a big thing for logistics. So ultimately we createdthese buyer centric profiles and content to make this human team and connection, andthey increase their relevance with sigma and they started to pull business through and createda six month sales cycle when usually twelve to eighteen months, and they becamean account that was worth about two to six million, depending how long theywere able to retain them as a client. But this was all because of changingthe conversation to speak to the buyer as human. Love it. Itbrings together so many of the ideas that you've already shared with us here,from the you know, updating your linked in profile to really speaking specifically tothat kind can even see an article written to you know, are you toobig for this but too small for that kind of a scenario? I don'tknow exactly how that was executed, but so many things you shared there cameto life in that story. It's a great outcome, Christina. I've reallyenjoyed the conversation and if someone is listening right now, they obviously did too. So where would you send them to connect with you? I assume linkedin'sprobably a great place. Where can they learn more about personal ABM, etc. Where would you send people to follow up on this? Definitely send mea personal message on Linkedin. You know why we should connect, why weshould add value to each other or how we could add value to each other. Christina had a MEO or Darmilla, and definitely check out personally abmcom momand we also have a podcast stop the sales drop, and that's a communityfull of articles, videos, podcasts. Ethan's going to be on it aswell and suggest people check that out as well. Awesome. Really quickly,what is the sales drop? What is the sales drop? Basically, whyare people not why are they following a falling out of the funnel or kindof getting stuck in the fall? So that's when you kind of like dropthe ball. Awesome, very good. I look forward to US spending moretime with you and conversation. I look forward to sharing this with listeners andI appreciate your time so much. Thank you. Clear Communication, Human Connection, higher conversion, these are just some of the benefits of adding video tothe messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a littleguidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at BombombcomBook. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create anddeliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tacticsby subscribing right now in your favorite podcast...

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