The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 7 months ago

196. Edumarketing: More Teaching, Less Selling w/ Ginger Bell

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Nobody wants to be sold to. Nobody. But nearly all of us are open to learning something helpful. 

Today’s guest, an edumarketing expert, teaches sales through education. 

Hear my conversation with Ginger Bell, Founder at Edumarketing:

  • How to extend customer experience to people who aren’t your customers
  • Why education is better than sales
  • What mindset shift will enable you to become an educator
  • How to use video in edumarketing
  • How to get started sharing your expertise with customers  

More information about Ginger and today’s topics:

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , Google Play or Google Podcasts , and find more episodes on our blog.

The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. To call the customer journey nonlinear is a gross understatement, and so much of each customers path depends on how and when they prefer to be educated. Today will walk through a process that helps us be more available to more people in a more convenient way and in a way that allows us to be their trusted source of information. Our guest is the founder of Edge Marketing, a company that improves customer experience through more educating and less selling. She brings more than fifteen years of experience helping companies develop and implement training and marketing programs. With deep experience in banking and compliance organizations. She's a telly award winning filmmaker and Emmy Award Winning Co Producer, a best selling author and, of course, and edge marketer. Ginger Bell. Welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you, then, I'm so excited to be here. Yeah, me too. I've loved our conversations in the past that we haven't recorded and released an episode, so it is finally time to record one and share it with folks so they can learn more about I love what you're up to. I love of how you landed here, although I don't know as many details as I want to. So we'll get into that. But where I want to start is where we always start, ginger, which is customer experience. When I say that, what does it mean to you? You know, I love this question because customer experience is not an area that a lot of people put time into. So I think having that discussion first of all and then, second of all, taking the time to really think about that. For me, the customer experience begins before you even meet with the customer. So it truly begins with what's your mindset, what's your team's mindset? How you've defined what you want that experience to be for the customer? So I think that's the first thing. You know what I mean a nutshell, obviously, customer experience is what you're providing for communication, for edge marketing, for education. It's every step of the way, no matter how brief, and a lot of times people don't realize your customer experience actually as a part of everything within your organization, even if the sale is not made. And so how you take care of that customer who isn't even a customer is as important as how you take care of that customer. So much good stuff in there. I especially like where you ended. I've only really thought of that really consciously and intentionally around kind of the recruiting and interviewing process, like the employee side of it, where you want you know you're going to get it. It's because the relationship is kind of inverse. Like we want as many prospects to turn into customers as possible. In hiring you want a lot of good candidates. We could only select one typically, and so you want to make sure that that experience is amazing so they go off, so they might apply for another job. But to your point, it applies equally well to the customer experience, where this might not be a priority for me, this might not be the right time, but when that any of those things change, I want to be the first person you call. But it is easy to overlook right and and you know I mean recruiting is one area, and not just recruiting, but you know it's I have a client who I am having a call with after our call and he called me yesterday and they have an individual who is looking at leaving and so they wanted me to have a conversation with this person to talk about some of the services that we provide for their...

...company. So I got an email from him this morning and he said unfortunately the person has already made a decision and is leaving, but they still wanted to do a call with the branch manager. But what I saw in this is here's another customer experience opportunity because, even though someone is leaving, how you handle that as they leave carries with them and they'll remember that and so you know it is it's at every single step, no matter who the customer is. Yeah, good call in general. Another just high level customer experience question. Do you feel like this is new language for old things, or do you think there's something new, just as customer experiences come up in popular business conversation variety of industries over the past, let's just say three to five years or so more so than you know, we were talking about it five years ago. Do you feel like it's new language for old things, or you think it's new language for new and old things? Well, I mean customer experience has always been there. I mean Disney is a prime example of that, right. I mean it's psych the happiest place on Earth, isn't a hundred percent perfect, and they change how they're providing that customer experience and sometimes that change is based on competition. Sometimes that changes based on things in the world that we're not affected by, like covid so, you know, being able to provide a good, safe customer experience. So I think it's a lot of different things. You know, at the end of the day it's how people feel after they've had an interaction with you. Yeah, really well said. We're going to get into edge of marketing is a concept and as a practice, but before we do, I'd love for you to talk about it as a business, and you are the business is founder. Who is your ideal customer and what are some of the problems that you're solving for them? So our ideal customer is the loan originator who wants to be able to position themselves and to share their expertise, to provide it too cation. At the end of the day, it's someone who really wants to be able to share what they know and selling through education, which is what I have always been everything about my business. I mean that's the core of who I am, and so providing the ability for them to do that awesome. I can't not follow up on that talk about why this is so deep and personal to you. Like like your approach. It reminds me of some of the great people that we've interviewed on the show where, you know, we talked about like it's selling, is helping, like those are those are the same thing. I'm sure you're in line with some of those philosophies, but I love for you to walk it out because I think it creates a better employee experience and about our customer experience, and I love to understand it from the depths of who you are as a person, not just as a professional. Well, for me, I've always been in training and education and my very first course, I'll take you back to a long, long time ago in Colorado when I lived there and worked for Color National Bank. was worked for their Rocky Mountain Bank card system and I was out of school. First Job I was a manager, managed to group of data entry technicians, and this is back in the day when we had the visa you know, they would swipe the visas and they send in all the forms and that was the department. And so the ones that didn't get done automatically, we had to can key them in, and a lot of my stuff were from Vietnam and Cambodia and Korea, and so we were having issues of them transposing numbers and so sought as an opportunity, let's change that, and so that was the first course I developed. It's a number skills course and we taught them over time how to learn how to read from left to right instead of right to left, and so we took that course and and moved it up throughout the entire...

...organization and it honestly became something that we used sales opportunity, for recruiting opportunity and everything within the organization. So that was the first one. And before I got in the mortgage industry, I was a corporate trainer at deal Carnegie Training, and so one of the best jobs I ever had in my life. I learned more, they're probably than I ever gave and so I've just always known that if you help someone to understand, to improve, to grow, that you're going to be able to provide that customer experience of them, of being able to create that link. I love it. I love learning as the foundation. It is obviously helpful to move opportunities for but also makes someone richer, deeper, better, stronger, variety of things. That looking test for US break down edge marketing in particular. Obviously it's a combination of education and marketing. But you know, what are those two kind of practice, dis is or principles mean to you? Like, why blend them together? Just give a go at edge marketing as a concept. Well, honestly, I think our society as a whole doesn't like to be sold to. I know personally I don't like to be sold to. You can see them coming. It's like, you know, the whole perception of going to the you know, use Carter sales slot and it's like, okay, stay away from me. You know are you walk into a store and you know someone comes up to help, and I do this every time. It's like I'll walk into the store and I'm a very intentional shopper, so it's like I know what I want, I know what I need, I'm going to go in, I'm going to get it, and the clerk will come up and say can I help you? And it's like no, nope, nope, nope, I don't want it, even though I probably would benefit from it right, but I just don't want to be sold anything. And so people are that way. And you know, someone came up and said, as far as can I help you or, you know, is there something in particular? You know, talking about educating on some maybe some of the trends. You know, that might be a better approach for me personally. Having the opportunity to, you know, understand a product or a process is part of the education. Using that concept of I'm going to provide the education to help you, you know, find better pants, find a better fit, find something that's good for travel. That to me is an educational side and then combining that and obviously in sales and marketing lends the two together. Awesome. And why you look? I've often thought this way too. I was a content marketer before I really knew what content marketing was as a as a specific practice. For those that maybe aren't in the the I think you and I are similar to a lot of ways for people that are different from us, that have come from a different background. We have, you know, a lot of sales folks listen, a lot of customer success folks listen, and people from variety backgrounds and disciplines and industries. Why do these two belong together so obviously, so obviously to you. Yes, basically, and again it goes back to people don't want to be sold. And I think we're saying that more generationally because our millennials clearly they they want to do the research. They won't they do their education beforehand. They can clearly do that online, which, you know, you and I didn't have that opportunity when we were that age, you know, shopping for first house. We couldn't go out and do the research. They can do that and they want that. They want to know what those steps are, and so it makes perfect sense to be able to provide them that information and to give it in a way that you're truly giving that information so that they can learn from it. Now the thing of the marketing side is to make sure that they make the hook, and so that's where a lot of people miss that and I just had a conversation with someone yesterday who does a live strain on youtube and and he...

...said that he was doing a live stream and hit someone on there. He said, Hey, man, thanks so much for the information. I love it. It's absolutely fantastic. We just closed on our house and he's like, seriously, you've been telling me you're on my my live strings that I'm doing weekly and I've given you all this information, but you close with someone else. And he realized bad on me, because he's been giving the education but he hadn't linked the marketing side of it as far as hey, I'm your person. And so I often see that in sales people. They're either really good education but they forget to do instead of a call to action, I call it a move to action, they forget to do that. And so it's putting the two of them together, giving the education but then also letting them know on the sale side, hey, you know what, here's a marketing side, here's how I can help you. So it's blinking those two together. Yeah, I think that link is so important. I think those of us that kind of default to teaching and helping and assisting, part of that motivation is obviously an eagerness to help and part of it too, is like I really like teaching more that I like selling, and so I can see that that's often a missing link. So this, obviously, I mean for folks who are listening that aren't necessarily ginger, is elected to focus because of a relationships in the in the dark of her career, focus on mortgage and on leadership and perhaps a bit in real estate as well. But this seems like it would be useful for so many people in so many places. So I guess my you've done a workbook for mortgage professionals, you've done done a workbook for leaders. You obviously wrote the Book Edge Marketing. In your mind, who is it this for, or who is it for us and to say who is it? Who is it for? But it kind of was like who isn't it for? Yeah, I mean I can't really think of any kind of an industry that it wouldn't be for, because no matter when, you could be a plumber. Hey, there's an opportunity, right, and even if you're giving there's a thing that people don't realize and they and I get this first, like why do I want to give somebody all the information? They're just going to go do it themselves and it's like, yes, there are all those people that are going to do it themselves, but there's a larger percentage that aren't, and so positioning yourself as the expert does that. So attorneys, financial planners, dentists, chiropractors, obviously, anyone in business, even restaurants. I mean you look at you know, you want to showcase some of the things that you do. I would do education. I would do like, I mean if I had a winery or a restaurant or something, I would do an entire educational night where you have people come in and you talk about different ingredients or what goes into a particular mix or you know how to set the tape. I mean there's so many areas that would be a fun little project to do sometime, to you know, go into different industries and to put something to they're like that. That would be a lot. We have fun with that. Absolutely last question. Then we're going to get a little bit more into the guts of it, like the process for people who say like Oh, yeah, it does make sense, we should probably be doing more of that. How much? I guess I actually have two separate questions, so I'll ask one first, how much of edge marketing is mindset and how much of it is practice? How much of it is viewing the customer relationship, the prospect relationship, than the recruit relationship, the employee relationship? You know how much of that is of the edge marketing process in general's mindset and how we're thinking about and approaching and imagining people in situations, and how much of it is the actual work of doing it. And we're about to get into the work of doing it. But you know, how do you think about that balance? So I think the heavy lifting at the beginning is the mindset. So going and and doing the work of identifying who your customers, who your customer segments? What are their questions? You know, I always go through you know what, what problems to you solve? What questions do you answer, and what products...

...and services to offer, and so, you know, looking at those and laying the road map. Once you have that road map set and you have that mindset, it's like, okay, this is what I know I can do and help and provide that information, and then the practice of actually doing that, I think, becomes easier. So once you get over that first okay, this is where I'm going to get started and it's kind of writing a bike. You know, you start writing a bike and you're a little bobbly at first. It's like, Oh, what am I going to do with the helmet on? It's like I'm going to be protected, I've got you know that. But then once you get on there, it's like, Oh, this isn't so hard and you know, maybe you can let your feet go off of the pedals a little bit and, you know, right down a hill a little bit faster. So it's honestly just a matter of getting started and then, once you get started, to continue on that path. Really good lessing here. And then I'll walk through a structure that you offer in the book and we can maybe dive in wherever you want to in it. Any common like myths or misconceptions or, as your maybe talking about a new client, talking with a new client or potential client, like misunderstandings, like what are some of the common myths or misunderstandings or misperceptions about edge marketing itself for the process of it? Hum Misunderstandings? That's a darn good question. I think probably it's more of an understanding of what it is. So maybe just a total of not understanding what that is and it and again it goes back to identifying. You know, who is your customer? What are your segments? You know what are those questions and all that. So you know, misconception, probably the biggest one, is that you don't need to do it, probably the absolute biggest. And then probably another big misconception is in you know, I mean you and I are all about video. And other misconception is how important that connection is and the customer experience and in the world we live and now, obviously pre Covid, digital world, now covid and someday postcovid, you know that connection that you're making with someone has to happen and you're not getting that and you talk about this in your book. You know it's not happening necessarily on the phone. It's certainly not happening and Internet. They have to have something as far as seeing you. We need that, we crave that. That's what we're about. So I think that's the other misconception, is that you don't need to do video. Awesome, we're going to get into video. And also also some challenges and misconceptions in the way you've coached people into using it successfully. I've certainly done a lot of that, successfully and unsuccessfully, over the past decade. But before we do only get into the structure of it, just for listeners so they can have like a stronger visual of what this process is like, and I'm just going to read a set of steps, and you've already previewed several of them in this conversation. I would add a misunderstanding or a misconception or or an error someone might make is that they go straight to, you know, creating content without doing all the pre work. So the pre work involves, and you've already mentioned a couple of these again, identify your customers, then segment them, identify your products and services, identify your customers problems, identify their questions and then kind of do the matching layer of identifying your solutions to those problems and questions. Then create your topics, create your headlines, create your content and then identify and use the delivery channels. Just in this because that's better. I feel like red off page, but like for the sake of conversation. Is there any color or anything you want to add there? Did I sequenced those correctly? Anything you want to like double down on or provide like a really practical tip on. So you did a great job.

So thank you for that idea straight out of your book and you did a great job with a book. Probably, I would say make sure, when you are going through this process that you spend the time to segment out those customers, because the content you're going to create and the dialog you have is different and whether it's, you know, something you write in a blog, whether it's something you send out an email, whether it's a video, you are having a conversation with one person, one person, and I see this all the time where people do videos to the masses, you know, and they stayed right to the masses, but there's only one person that's reading that. And so, you know, I think really, if you're going to double down on something, double down on who are you specifically talking to, and think about as if you're having a conversation, conversation with just that one person. You know, if you and I'm at at a cocktail party and you are asking questions, I wouldn't, you know, answer your question. It's like well, you all would be looking at right. So I think that's probably in a double down and especially as I've gotten through the book I wrote than Jamarket I was a couple of years ago and now going through coaching and working with a lot of people. That's the thing I think. Yeah, and it's interesting too, because even with the same topic or the same subject, different segments are going to think about it, worry about it, act against it. There Act asking for different reasons, or the answer is going to be different. The same, exact same question from do two different people stated the exact same way? If you have the depth of understanding of where this person's coming from and where they are and what they mean by that question, it could be a completely different answer than another person who's motivated or timed or prioritized differently. Yeah, absolutely, yeah, so it really does. You know you those early steps cannot be skipped. So you've already talked about video. It's something that we have in common in terms of our passion and appreciation for the powerful human to human experience that creates, even when we're stuck in digital, virtual and online environments. Just give me a high level pass at the role of video in edge you marketing, because you know in and maybe you draw it out across your career as a trainer and a variety of capacities. Like why is video so important today and order some other mode, like how does it where's it fit relative to some of the other modes or mediums that you're recommending or seeing or seem be successful for people? So I think, I think video blends in with everything else you're doing. So whether you're sending out an email campaign, whether you're recruiting, whether you're, you know, doing just straight out sales marketing, whether you're, you know, partnering with other, you know, people in business. You know, it's another opportunity for you to have a delivery channel and it can be part of everything. And so when you're thinking about video, don't just think about Youtube. I mean youtube is just a delivery channel. Don't just think about social media, another delivery channel. You know, think about what you're doing on your website, think about what you're doing and you're recruiting, you know, I think that's an area that a lot of people don't spend a lot of time on and there's so much you can do and video to be able to show your culture, to show your values, which is what people are looking for when they're going to go to an organization. So in my opinion, I think video can be used in every facet. And I have been in the mortgage industry. I started in the mortgage industry when my son was in first grade and he just graduate it with his MBI. So That's how...

...long I've been in the industry. But you know, we used to do video and you know back in two thousand and eight when we had all the compliance changes, that's how a lot of video was used and it was thought of its very boring and try and oh my gosh, and it was, you know, nails on tough board trying to get somebody to do something a little more entertaining. And so I think it's get get over that. First of all, doesn't have to be born and then, second of all, look at every place you can put it in your business and just make it a part of every single thing they're developing, whether it's internal, whether it's external, it should include video. So anytime you're I'm just going to restate it and then turn it back as a question. So I'm clear and so listeners are clear. Anywhere you're developing content, generically speaking, to solve a problem, answer a question, build a bridge, whether it's for prospect or a customer or recruiter and employee. As you're developing that and figuring out is it going to be a landing page, as they're going to be an email campaign, is there going to be a social campaign, whatever, video should be part of every one of those conversations. Absolutely. I mean you can combine it with the written word, you can combine it with other things that go with it, but it to definitely be a part of it. It was funny. I we did a whiteboard session with the two different clients that are working together and the service provider because as we went through the whole strategy of where we're going to, you know, put video in, the Ahr moment was, oh my gosh, we are making you guys do all the work because, instead of having video that went through the steps, the Ll Llos were having to have a conversation and honestly going through, you know, thirty to forty five minute conversation over and over and over again, repeating how this service worked. And so it was an epiphany because ire, oh my gosh, we need we need to take care of this. Video can take care of that. Yeah, so funny. There's a lot of people feel like video takes more time, but that's just a perfect example of how it can save a massive, massive amount of time. I've heard you just bribe video. I'm getting back to that kind of connection piece that you mentioned earlier in the conversation. I've heard you describe video and people consuming your video, whether you recorded it just for them or whether you recorded it for them as part of a segment, whether they sought five minutes ago where they saw it five weeks ago. Video can serve as a form of a virtual handshake, even if it's a little bit of a one way draw that analogy out for people well, and so, prime example, you know, if you think of an artist, whether it's an actor and actress, or you know someone like Lady Go God, for example. Never matter, absolutely never matter. But I've seen her on TV, right the visual I seen her saying on TV, on videos, I've watched her interviews and all of that, and I feel like I kind of know her a little bit. Never matter, I have no idea really what kind of person that she is, but because I have seen her, I've made that connection right, and that's what video does. It gives an opportunity for you to be seen and like a tracks like. So if you're authentic in your videos, then people are going to either like you or not like you the same as if they meet you in person, and so that's what video does. We just did a whole recruiting campaign that I felt for a client and we internalized their recruiting efforts through video and a series of emails, and part of it was to take out the reputation as far as having to do the you know, the calls and the presentations over again, which is one great thing video does. The other is to really give a feel for the culture of the organization, and what's been...

...so exciting about doing this is within we launched that in December and so by the end of February they had already hired eight loan originators from this and they shortened the time cycle, they shortened the questions and it was all based on video, because now that not only did they see it, but the Llo could share it with their significant other, with their family and say hey, this is what I'm looking at. That can't happen in a powerpoint presentation, that can't happen in a phone call, that can't happen in a woman our that's how powerful video is. Yeah, I love it. It covers this bridge of you know, we make all these I'll just stay in this recruiting conversation because, for folks who are listening, we're recording this with a just still, the labor market is insane. It's really difficult to find people. As a consequence, is difficult to keep people and and all of this is like a really tight labor market. And so you know, we can we can say all these things, we can present ourselves through web pages and emails and things, but where people really make their judgments is in the experience. And you know, until they commit to enjoin you, they're not going to know what it is. So this creates this kind of risk scenario or an uncertainty or an unfamiliarity, and I'm not sure whether it's worth leaving. And I'll say this for customers and and employees. We typically, if we lose out, we don't land that person as a customer or an employee. It's typically to no decision, not to a competitor in so many cases, and so you know they're trying to side. Is the risk low enough for me to move forward and commit to join you all so absent them actually making the commitment finding out, because a lot of people don't want to take that risk. You know, we do things like offer customer testimonials or employee testimonials. We try to provide some evidence that what we're saying about ourselves is actually true, and video helps close that gap because of a really good video. And you use the word authentic, so I'll use that as a bridge into my next question. It's not easy to be authentic on video in the beginning Shere, however you would like, because most people still today, in two thousand and twenty two, are on the outside of this opportunity looking in as long as people like you and me have been coaching, training, teaching, encouraging, could Joeling, persuading people to take the next Stepp so many arts. So you know you're still speaking to the majority here. What are some of the most common challenges you've seen and how are you helping people overcome them so that they can not only start recording more videos, but be authentic and comfortable and confident in a way that is winning for other people? What are some of the common problems and how are you helping people through them so the first thing as just getting started. So if you pick up the phone and and your phone today, people would say, what equipment? I don't have the right equipment. It's like you have a thousand dollar camera in your pocket, use it and you know when you're when you're thinking about doing a video again. It gets back to that conversation. Was that conversation? You know, I made the mortgage video planner out of conversations I was having with several clients and they're like, we don't know what to talk about. It's like, are you kidding? You've been doing mortgages for twenty years. How can you not know what to talk about? And so, you know, that's part of the challenge for people. It's like what am I going to talk about? So if they can frame it up and part of the the planner discoes through, you know have in your mind what you're going to do. So what's your opening hook? Write that down and then put your three points down. What that is? Write those down and then you're called action. And when you have a road map like that, you're going to fill in the rest with you and that's going to come through. It's going to come through, and how you're smiling. It's going to come through with, you know, your body language, it's going to come through with your energy, it's going to come through with your you know, expence you're talking about as far...

...as experiences. But if you don't start going through and again back to that planning process, right, if you don't write it down and and give yourself that foundation, they're number going to see the Filler, which is you, which is going to be, you know, the blend that comes together and it will come through in and we coach through as like I've a new client that started and never he's never done video and so, you know, he was very nervous and then he does another's getting a little bit better. So like, okay, now let's get your energy up. And so you know, as you get going, you will get better. So I get going and then get good. So that's the main thing is to be able to do it. And and then the other thing I recommend for people, and I did this back when I started doing video, I had my videographer and we were doing a bunch of videos on compliance and I said just record it, edit it. I don't want to watch it. And if you're that and for me it's like I didn't want to watch it. It's like I don't like how, and I still do this day, where you are all that way. Probably, I mean even Jalo is probably that way and she's absolutely gorgeous. She probably critiques herself. That's human nature. So you will come through its funny I had somebody, I was speaking in a conference come weeks ago and I had shown a video part of a recruiting series that we had done with another client, and one guy said, oh no, I don't like that at all. I said, that's okay, like a tracks like. So that's the whole key. Video is a great storting tool because you're going to find out right away whether or not somebody's going to match. It's kind of like you know if you're if you're single and going to the bar, it's like, you know what, there's certain people you're attracted to, certain people you're not attracted to. That's okay, sort early. Yeah, I really appreciate that. The like attracts like it's the second time you've mentioned it and I feel like that's part of a layer of the fear or anxiety people have about it, because they're just so much more comfortable hiding behind what we call the cloak of digital anonimity. It's like you're just hiding behind your keyboard and hiding behind your emails signature, when in fact, in so many cases, not only are you your best sales asset, you are the reason people say yes or no, no matter what. And so why wait? Why not get in front of people earlier and more often? I guess. Last question on video here the you email, video messaging. You're familiar with what we do here at bombomb. How any thoughts that you have on where this fits in relative to video on social video and Youtube, video on your home page? Maybe video in a and an internal like portal type situation to move people through modules and stuff? How do you view or think about video, email and video messaging? What interests you about it? What excites you about it, like where is it going from your perspective? So, obviously a user, I have a lot of clients that users to absolutely love everything about bombomb and making it easy. So and I think that's it. You know, if you have that level where it's easy for you to do and it is. I mean you honestly can pick up your phone and record it send an immediate message out on video. You can tell if their watch, you know, all those kind of things. Honestly, if you're going to choose one thing to do in terms of video, I think video email is probably a good place to start and then you can expand out from them. So beginning that and there's so many different places that you can use that and you can and you can record a message that you send out, that you record it one time. I'm a very much a systems person and so it's psych if we can record it one time and then you can personalize the message later on. Those the kind of things that I think everyone should be looking at, no matter what they're doing. So definitely doing that. And...

...then you can kind of filling around there. You can use your platform to record a video and then you can download it. I'm posted on the social so it's like it makes it super simple to do that. So big time band. Yeah, I agree, it is. It is a good place to start, in part because you can target it. You could target it to your mom or your friend or your teammate. If you can start, get like, get started, then get good. Yeah, you know ygmented lists. Yeah, you know. Yeah, really good. So you mentioned Dale Carnegie earlier. It was something I actually wanted to talk to you about just because I was curious about it. You know, I think so often as we're, you know, going to conferences or jumping on webinars or these types of things, you know, some people sell by fears, some people act like, you know, the new thing is the only thing, and yet there are all around us these timeless principles. I think the principles of video are timeless principles. Were just happy to be talking about it relative to today's, you know, bandwidth and today's, you know, really nice webcams and smartphones and different distribution points of stuff with the principles are old, no, like trust, like really basic stuff, and so you know, I know that you're as a trainer with Dale Carnegie Training that was really valuable to you and I also know as a foundation for your career. I also know that, like those lessons in the original writings are over a hundred years old. It seems like approximately timeless, and even those are probably drawing from the past. So what were some of the core principles that you were teaching or who were you engaging there? What maybe is stuck with you or any thoughts you have around this kind of timelessness and fundamental aspects of relationships and markets and commerce that we tend to kind of lose sight of when we start looking at the newest tools in the newest tech. Yeah, so deal Carnegie is always one of those table of Eight. You know, I say, I would love, love, love to sit down huge fan, just such an incredible person. And if you haven't read the book, or if you have teenagers, I recommend getting the book how to win friends, to influence people, because no matter what, what era, age, whatever, it's all based on the principles of being interested in someone, and so I think that's very important. You know, part of the the deal Carnegie Course, which is a twelve week course, got people over their fear of public speaking, and that's why Dale had created the course. And what was interesting as we taught the course and you would see people go through the process and we would always start off having them talk about something that was familiar with them, and so that's often times why people don't want to do public speaking, is because they feel like they're talking about something that they're not familiar with. Same same, so, same thing, same beers. That applied for public speaking now apply to everything in video. So it's funny that I've come this like full circle now, and but it's the same principle. So, you know, talk about what you're familiar with and start with that, and that's what we would do, is like have someone tell a story about something they're familiar with, and I often do that with my clients when we sit down and shoot video. The very first thing is tell me how you got into the industry and now immediately go back to that moment. So start with what's comfortable. And then the other thing that I love that del Carnegate so much was part of a core of everything, all the principles, is be genuinely interested in someone, and I think we have lost a little bit of that in our fast pace and our social media and all of that. And so, you know, take the time to be genuinely interested, listen, ask those questions, and that goes back to creating that customer experience. Really well done. I'm so glad I asked that, because you lay your did more video tips, fundamentally, but then also just again tied this like timeless thread through there.

I also appreciate this idea of being interested in other people, and I'll just make an observation. I feel like what social media has allowed people to do and that their focus now on what images am I going to put for myself? What is my headline going to be? What am I going to post it like? I even think a lot of people look at their relationships with other people on social not as an interest in that person, but really, how are they interested in me? How are they engaging with me? What are they liking of mine? What was their comment like? Did they like my comment? He's like, it's all like, it is and it maybe that is just a personality type and orientation, but I feel like a lot of people aren't taking that, you know, to be interesting, be interested approach, even though social media as a tool, that really is neither good nor bad. It's all on how it's used and by whom it's used in what spirit. It's a wonderful tool to be interested in other people. Yeah, absolutely, and jet and genuinely interested. So not just a little bit interested, not like, Oh, I know I'm going to do this so I get something out of it, but to be genuinely interested and and that's a key absolutely, and that that spirit, by the way, underpins your kind enough to reference a book that I co authored and we released recently called Human Center communication. If you are listening to this and if you enjoyed the insights that ginger has brought to this conversation, I've got two more real like and they're both with people featured in that book. Episode one hundred and forty eight with Dan Tire, who is the sixth employee and first salesperson at hub spot, and we call that one video messaging and the next normal. So a lot of video conversation. They are a lot of relationship stuff. They're about helping rather than selling. Dan wrote a blog post years ago called always be closing is dead. It's always be helping. So definitely aligned with you, ginger, on that and with all forward thinking and acting business people. That's one hundred and forty eight with Dan tire and then a slightly more recently episode one hundred and fifty six with Julie Hanson, who was a professional actor and salesperson at the same time and now teaches people to use to develop video skills but also use them throughout their sales motion. We call that an actor's guide to authentic video. So one hundred and forty eight with Dan one hundred and fifty six with Julie Ginger. Before I let you go, relationships are our number one core value here. I would love for you to take a minute to thinker mentioned someone who's had a positive impact on your life for your career. Wow, so someone probably that has had a huge positive impact on myself and my career. It's a very good friend of both of ours and that's who what are and had the opportunity to meet with so years ago, we don't share how many years ago, and and shared a lot of the same similarities as far as the like night, you know, education and and she has been such a joy and encouragement. In fact, even, you know, just last night was we were discussing something that was happening within the industry and and and just her words of encouragement. She just always no matter where I'm at, she's always someone I know I can call, run something by, you know, say what do you think or, you know, just support. So in terms of just within, you know, my industry and what we're doing within the mortgage and row estate space, I would say sue is probably one of the most impactful, awesome, beautifully said the depth of your relationship is much greater than mine with sue, but everything you shared I've seen an experienced, just with with less depth than left, less experience, but it's all there. And of course, this customer experience podcast, so you can sit in the customer chair for a minute and share with me and listeners accompany your brand that you personally appreciate for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer. You know I mean there's a lot of different things, products and services that we use. I'm always looking for a stand...

...out and I had an opportunity a couple weeks ago. Was Speaking at a conference in Austin, Texas, and stayed the event was at the Archer Hotel, which I had never heard of and and it's a very small Boutique Hotel, and the thing that impressed me total customer experience was about the customer and when you walked in the door they had this little chalk board that said you are our story, and that was like wow me, I'm your story. And so, you know, nothing exceptional as far as checking in, pretty standard stuff. But when I walked in the door there was two cupcakes from a local bakery. So I love the tie in as far as the local bill and then in front of it said you are welcome here, thanks for coming, and it's like wow, they knew I was coming. They had, you know, two nice bottles of water. They had, you know, the Toub, they had salts for the Ba up to that little rubber ducky. It was the little details and sometimes we forget that the little details make all the difference. And so what's crazy about this is I posted on social media because COVID has changed how we travel right. I mean it's it's taken away so many things, like I've honestly checked in hotels and had to call for glasses because there was no water glasses. Oh, we don't put glasses and it's like how does water glasses have anything to do with covid? So we've kind of gone to this other extreme as not having to provide the extra. So having that extra was like above and beyond. And then I stayed on for the weekend, drove an hour outside of Austin and ended up on Saturday going into a very small boutiqui store. Got Along great with the owner and ended up getting her on video. She used to be the HR director for the Hilton and she's just had so much great information. I say, I had to get you on video, you have so much to share. And so anyway, I said, Oh, I said you could. You should go stay at this hotel, the Archer Hotel. It's absolutely phenomenal, and I'm showing my pictures to I mean, that's how great this experience was, right and she started laughing and about that time this gentleman walks in the door and she said, I want you to meet my husband, the general manager for the Archer town. Is that crazy? Yeah, it's really fun. That's awesome. So, I mean that's what it did. Not only was it a great experience for me, but I was sharing it and then, little did I know, is actually her husband who, an hour away from even the hotel, was the general manager. But that's what it, customer experience is. It's something that somebody takes with them and wants to share with others. Yeah, so good. That remarkable aspect is come up a number of times. I'm thinking of our conversation, my conversation with Dan Gengis most recently on that theme of like being remarkable as knowing that you've that you've reached an appropriate level. But the other detail you offered there is like the little things. Just expect, I think about this in my personal life, to all those fleeting thoughts that we have about how cool that person is or how helpful that was or that I'm really glad that person is here, but sometimes we don't articulate or express those and just even saying you are welcome here is this. You don't have to say it. You would hope that people would understand that, but you can't take that for granted and especially this day and age where the bar is so low and so many businesses, those little expressions to let people know that you see them and appreciate them, that they are welcome here, really go a long way. This has been awesome. I've kept you a little bit over time. I hope it hasn't been an inconvenience for people who stayed with us this this amount of time. They probably want to know where to follow up with you. Where can they connect with you, ginger, learn more about edgy marketing and anything else that you're up to? Where we you send folks? Well, first of all,...

...thank you for the opportunity. I've loved this conversation we could probably continue on for another hour, you and I. We will. We just might not record the ducks of blood. Yeah. So our website is at Jew Marketingcom, Edu Marketingcom, and you can connect with me at meet Ginger bellcom. So M eet ginger bellcom. And thank you so much. Yeah, thank you very much. I really enjoyed it and I will link all that stuff up. We write these up, we drop in video highlights at Bombombcom podcast. Thank you for listening and thank you so much, ginger, for your time today. The digital, virtual and online spaces where we work every day our noisier and more polluted than ever, and the problem is only getting worse. At risk or relationships and revenue, join bombombs, Steve Passanelli and Ethan Butt, along with eleven other experts in sales, marketing, customer experience, emotional intelligence, leadership and other disciplines, to learn a new way to break through the noise and pollution. Human centered communication a new book out now on Fast Company press. Learn more by visiting Bombombcom book or search human centered communication wherever you buy books. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit bombombcom slash podcasts.

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