The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 137 · 8 months ago

137. Enhancing EX and CX Through Brand Storytelling w/ Gabrielle Dolan


If your brand is the stories people share about you, the concept of brand storytelling is how you take control of those stories by bringing humanity into the way you lead and communicate.

In this episode, I interview Gabrielle Dolan, Speaker and Author at Gabrielle Dolan Consulting and Founder of Jargon Free Fridays, about the trends driving brand storytelling and how to influence stories told about you.

Gabrielle spoke with me about:

- The power of telling magnetic stories

- 5 types of stories that every business needs

- Being intentional, authentic, and strategic about sharing who you are

- The origin story for Jargon Free Fridays

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:


- Gabrielle on LinkedIn

- Gabrielle on Twitter

- Books by Gabrielle

- Elise Turner on LinkedIn

- Habbot Shoes (Flats)

- Ferguson Plarre Bakehouses

- Mekong Capital

- Columbia Restaurant

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When we share stories and when weshare personal stories. Every time we share a personal story we reveal something aboutourselves and it makes us more. It makes us more, for want ofa bitter word, human. It makes us human, it makes us morerelatables as a Lata, relatable as a person. We want to deal withan ultimately, we're humans and we want to deal with people we like.So so sharing stories does that. The single most important thing you can dotoday is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn howsales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes andexceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experiencepodcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Magnetic stories attract and connect with customers. Magnetic stories also attract and engage employees, and because we all wantto do both of those things, we've brought in an expert on brand storytellingto help. She's the best selling author of six books, including real communication, how to be you and lead, true stories for work, the essentialguide to business storytelling, and her latest magnetic stories connect with customers and engageemployees with brand storytelling. She's an international speaker and educator with a client listthat includes organizations like v Sir, Amazon, Voda phone and the Obama Foundation.She's also the founder of Jargon Free Fridays, which sounds both fun andcompletely necessary. Gabrielle Dol and, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thankyou, Ethan. I'm very, very excited to be here. Yeah,so before we are going at you've got to tell you a little bit aboutjargon free Fridays, like what was the origin story and how's it going?Yeah, look, Jargon Free Fridays came about, I think, because I'ma very big fan of picking people up on unnecessary jargon. So I hada client send me a debit cartoon once on on the you know, useof jargon, and it was a Friday and I just I flipped it outto my database on Linkedin and sort of said, here's a challenge for today. Let's try not to use jargon just today, on Friday, and assoon as I did it I thought, HMM, this could be a funthing. I could do like every Friday. So the concept is it's a funway to raise awareness to you know, what I think is a pretty seriouscommunication problem in business. It's the unnecessary use of jargon and acronyms andwe all we all do it, we all have it, and the ideais it's pretty hard to give up. So what if we just decided oneday a week we would try to give up a bit of jargon that weuse? Maybe we know we use a bit of jargon like pivot or journeyor and we just try not to use that on Friday. Yeah, it'sreally fun and it just just the self awareness and the conscious awareness alone probablymakes a massive improve me throughout the week. Yeah, absolutely, and I lookwhat you know. I when I do my keynotes and training on workshops, I mentioned jargon and everyone sits there and go, oh my, that'swhat we say, that's what we do, and they hang their head in shameand have a bit of a laugh and and all it is. It'slike it's just self awareness. Just be aware how much you actually using it. Yeah, really good. Well, thank you for taking that on.I need to pay closer attention because it sounds like fun and I'll probably catchmyself using jargon because I know that I do and I know that everyone listeningdoes. To just with the two examples you tossed off their cell before weget going any farther, I would love for you to define customer experience.When I see that to you, Gabrielle, what does it mean to me?It means, and I assumed it looking of good customer experience, butI guess the customer experience is, you know, to me a really goodcustomer experiences is when you've had such a great experience that you go and tellpeople about it and it's almost like it's unexpected, but it's sort of shouldn'tbe, but I think it's unexpected really...

...great service. I remember last yearI had to take my daughter to get a cof test and I was oneof those drive through covertest and I still remember the nurse came up. Istill remember her name, and name was Alisa, because that's the name ofmy executive manager. And she came up and she treated it like we're ata hotel. She went hello, have you been here before? Blah,blah, and and she was sort of being half funny, going okay,well, please come again if you need to, and the whole experience justmade and this was our first time, so you don't know what to expectand I just came home and told so many people about it. I thinkI even wrote a blog about it. It was such great customer service.I love it it. I mean you you spoke basically to the literal definitionof remarkable worth talking about, and you also bridged like I'm imagining that womanthat you were describing and it makes me think like it was probably makes herjobs so much more fun. So it's like it makes this connection that youdo in the subtitle of magnetic stories is, you know, the relationship between customerexperience and employee experience. Yeah, and I think it also shows that, you know, everyone's capable of giving great customer experience, whether you're,you know, trying to sell someone a pair of shoes, or you're deliveryin a service or you're actually giving a covid test to them, there's opportunitiesto give really good customer experience and I think a lot of the reason whyit doesn't happen is because I think a lot of people in those positions don'teven think that this is a customer experience. And and and it is bright,which kind of goes back to the jargon thing. We need to beselfaware at least as the provider of the experience, that every moment and mattersand that it's adding up to something that hopefully, is remarkable in a positiveway. As you said now, in magnetic stories, which I enjoyed verymuch, you had a set of case studies in the back and I'm goingto refer to a couple few of them maybe during the conversation, if itcomes up. I wanted to start with a quote from Steve Play of FergusonPlari Bake House in Australia, because he speaks to what I've regarded come toregard by having conversations with smart and kind people like you, as the essenceof customer experience, and so I'm going to read it and and tell me, give me some context around it or your own thoughts on it. Forevery dollar a customer gives you fifty senses for the product, and will makethat as well as we can, but the other fifty cents is for howyou make them feel, and that's the essence, in my opinions, howwe make them feel. So half of the dollar that a customer gives usedfor the product, half of it is for how you make them feel andcontinuing the quote. If customers don't get a return on that second fifty cents, it doesn't matter how good the product is. Yeah, I loved Ilove that and I love speaking a stay of Steve. He's the fifth generationalowner of a really wellknown bake house in in Australia. Our player Ferguson's itlike anyone in Australia would or in Melbourne would know that. And and he'sright. You know, they make pies and Saucy rowls and vanilla slices andhe's so. I remember him saying no one actually needs one of those likebut it's like when they buy it and and he said it's you want themwalking away feeling really happy from that experience because a lot of time that's sortof what they're buying and for. So, yeah, I love the concept thatyou think if you're delivering a good or a service, that I lovethe whole concept that. Think about it. If people are any paying half theprice for the actual physical thing you're giving them and paying the other halffor that experience, wouldn't that make a difference to what you could do tothat experience? You could, you could really might that real value for money. Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's true in so many cases.I immediately had a few ideas come to mind and when you start thinking aboutit's like we could cut the price in half and it would just be,you know, a bargain Bin, kind of no frills, not fun,not interesting, not nice experience. And if people just want the cheapest price, they can get that. But what...

...most of us of basic means arewilling and able to do is pay that extra for a better experience. Anotherone. I'm not going to read a quote on this one, but whenyou're talking about me con capital in Vietnam, it really struck me and knows,as we all constantly talk on this show about the relationship between employee experienceand customer experience, and this will be our bridge a little bit into storytelling. Is the primary audience of their storytelling is their employees. It's not theinvested companies, it's not their potential investors, it's not the general public. Talka little bit about that, like the importance of creating experiences in anddoing storytelling for our employees, not just for our customers. I think whenwe start going down this road we immediately think about what we can and shouldbe doing for our potential and current customers. But you know, and employee canbe the primary audience for some of our most important work. Yeah,absolutely. It's interesting, Nathan, for I've been doing this for sixteen yearsand I have predominantly been working with businesses and senior leaders on how they sharepersonal stories for their employees. So it literally I when I started this itwas very much an internal focus. It's probably only over the you know,the last decade and and a half of been doing this that the concept ofsharing stories with your customers has become a big part of my work as well. So PUTT and I and I love working with me Kong, because Ihad a really that is such a massive commitment to start collecting stories. Iremember when I first see you called me, he said I want you to comeover for three days to work with us, and my initials, wow, that is a big investment and we did three days and then we didanother couple of days a few months later. But what they do is they've gotsome guide I guess, values, what any other company would say.These are our values and they've got guiding fourteen behaviors. What they do iswhen they invest in companies. They invest in these companies, you know,to help them grow and turn them around, but they sort of have to followthese values and behavior. So they wanted to start collecting stories to demonstratethat. But initially what they've rightly said is we need our company to beliving and breathing these values and behaviors and we need all our employees to dothem as well. So Chris the the managing director of me Cong he is, just said that, you know, when people come into the company,the stories they share about the values and the behaviors gets everyone in a prettymuch up to speech straightaway to sort of this is our culture, this iswhat we do, this is how we behave, and I would say outof my thirty years working in corporate it was them living their values. wasinstantaneously the moment I started working with them. I remember the first day I've rolledup. The session was meant to start at nine o'clock. I wasexpecting everyone to roll in it, you know, nine or just after nine, which is normal. Everyone, every single person, was there like tento nine ready to start, and I thank them for their you know,promptness and Chris said he was surprised. He said. Well, one ofour values is respect, and so if you say you're going to be ata meeting on time, you beat a meeting on time and it was itwas just and and that is one of many, many examples of where theylive their values and called out people are not living their values because it wassuch intrenched and the reason it was in trench just because they use stories tocommunicate them. It's fantastic. I love that contact done that story in araising my own personal feeling, which is that ten minutes earliers, five minuteslate. I liked if I do be ready for things too, but youreally teat us up nicely for our day here over the next I don't know, fifteen twenty minutes into storytelling in particular, and I guess will start with,you know, just so that we're all on the same page, listenersand you and me. When I see...

...storytelling, what is that capture orwhat is it encapsule Ete for you, like when you say we're talking aboutstorytelling and brand storytelling. What is that like? What is the essence ofit? Yeah, I always like before I just before I describe what brandstorytelling is, I like to describe what brand is. Yeah, it's whatyou know you there's lots of definition on brand, what it is, andI one of my favorites comes from Jeff Bezos, who where he said yourbrand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. Mylittle tweak on that is it's the stories people share about you when you're notin the room, because I think ultimately we're how people describe something. IsI will tell a story. So to me, your brand is the storiespeople share about you when you're not in the room and where we know brandis important. We all have a brand individually. We all have a brand. As companies we have a brand and brand will determine if people employ you, if people work for you, if people buy you, if people investin you, refer, you, recommend, you support you. So your brandis really important. So if that's so important, we should take controlof it. So the concept of brand storytelling. So if your brand isthe stories people share about you, the concept of brand storytelling is how doyou take control of the stories? And there's two ways you can take sortof you can influence that. One is you can do things that create stories. So you know that example of the the nurse that did the covertest created. So did something that that created a story that I shared. The otherthing is that you can actively share stories. So if you want to be knownfor Great Customer Service, Yes, do it, absolutely do it tocreate stories. But what stories can you share of you know, perhaps youremployees delivering exceptional customer service, so not only externally but also internally. Thatwe talked about so all the other employees go, oh, that's what wemean, that's what we mean by exceptional customer service. So to me,brand storytelling is taking control of the stories that you share and taking trying toinfluence the stories people share about you. Awesome. I don't know that we'llget into the details of it, but for folks who are really interested inwhat Gabrielle just shared in magnetic stories, it breaks down a process things thatyou can do. This is all about being intentional. I think for me, just thinking about my own career and a variety of organization, certainly storieshave been an important part of brand internally and externally, but it was nevera holy systematic I mean I would periodically in a variety of my roles anda variety of companies, including where I am now, with bomb bomb,you know, reach out to customers to get their stories and actively solicit those, but it was primary too, primarily to market the service and it wasusually an acute event. Right. It wasn't this ongoing, persistent effort.That's just part of how we do it around here and I implied in whatyou said to me. Decide, be curious your reaction is. It's notonly about being remarkable and reinforcing the values, but it's really creating an evidence andlike this constant living trail of evidence that we are who we say weare, for our own benefit and for people who are trying to evaluate ifwe can be taken at our word, if we're trustworthy and it for goodand all the other things that we try to find in partners and vendors.Yeah, I look really love that description to how you've captured it. It'sintentional, what you say. It's the concept. He's intentional and it's ongoing. It's like it's ongoing of almost like providing evidence, but it's not,but it's ongoing demonstration of these is who we really are. So it's intentional, it's authentic, it's strategic and it's got to be ongoing. It's notjust one story that we sharing constantly. Awesome. I'm going to read youa oneliner out of magnetic stories and it has two elements to that I'm particularlyinterested in. So the line is bringing...

...humanity to the way business people communicateis a calling in career. And I'll say it one more time. Bringinghumanity to the way business people communicate is a calling in a career rear andthe two things I'd love for you to expound down here. First is thechoice of the word humanity. How, how is humanity intimately connected with thestorytelling process and better business communication? And then speak to the calling and careerkind of what? When did this occur to you and you say like thisis my life's work, because I think we're all looking for that. Ithink sometimes some of us think we found it someone who is willing to expressthat out of printed page. You know, I would love to know kind ofwhat that process was like for you. So kind of two questions there.Yeah, Hicks, when you when you just read that back to me, the calling, I was like, I don't want it to people tothink it's like it was a religious, you know, Aha moments folk thing, but I guess it's. It certainly has been with me my entire lifeand career, I think. And and so if I, if I answerthe first question about bringing humanity into the way we, you know, dobusiness and lead and communicate, I'm all about, you know, just beingreal. So, like my previous book was about real communication, and partof that is it's two things. It's what we do and who we are, but what we say. So I've the whole leadership bit was a youknow, I'd work with some people that I thought that would just terrible,like terrible people to work with and then someone to go on. But they'rereally nice outside of work and I never got that. I never got theconcept how someone could be really nice out at work but a complete, youknow, Dick to work with. So that in you know, and Iget, I get that we act differently in different situations, but I trulybelieve that, you know, ninety eight percent of you should be the sameand you just maybe tweaking, tweaking a little bit for different audience. Sothis whole concept of, you know, be human and stop trying to bethe you know, just because you've got a position of a leader doesn't meanyou have to put up this, you know, false and pretend to besomeone else. So this is where the whole concept of the jargon free,not using jargon and using stories, because I think when we share stories andwhen we share personal stories, every time we share a personal story, wereveal something about ourselves and it makes us more it makes us more, forwant of a better word, human. It makes us human, it makesus more relatables as a leader, relatable as a person. We want todeal with and ultimately we're humans and we want to deal with people we like. So so we're sharing stories, does that. And the whole concept ofjargon is just can you just say what you mean, like like, please, just say what we mean. And and this started off really early.You know, I started my career in technology and the amount of acronyms inthe technology industry I remember very early, like it was in my early twentiesand I was in technology and I had to ring up for a replacement ofa fan in an IBM and I was looking through it was a big printedyou know, we've been printed, and I'm looking under F for Ban forthe replacement number and I couldn't find it. And so I had to ring thehelp desk and they said it's under a go why? And they getsair movement device and I just remember thinking that is seriously. Someone has renamedfan to air movement device and, you know, reduced it to an acronymIMD, and I just and I guess, I guess to me that was myexperience over thirty years ago of unnecessary acronyms and and I still remember.I still remember working with a leader and he always used to say the wordsexecutional excellence and I remember saying to him, I'm saying, Jeff, what whenyou say executional excellence, what do you mean? Because I'm not reallysure I know what it stand means and I'm not sure anyone else does either. And he responded with a description,...

...again using a whole lot of jargon, and I just said, if you had to put it in your ownwords, how would you describe it? And he was got really annoyed atbeing he said, will put simply, executional excellence means once we decide we'regoing to do something, let's make sure we do it right. And Ijust looked in my goat. Why don't you say that? Because because Ireckon your entire team would get behind that. Not Executional excellence, which sounds likeyou just killed someone but did it really well. Great, so muchfun stuff and they're and helpful stuff. What I would love to know iscommon mystique. So I assume that you're probably just reading the key studies andreading the book and all the examples and stories and there you're dealing with somereally good and smart companies. But I would assume that either through conversations relatedto jargon free Fridays or maybe some clients you didn't mention in the book orstories that you've read in the press or elsewhere, common mistake. So Ithink I'll identify a couple. Not being intentional about collecting or sharing stories,not having them necessarily be authentic in some way. What are some other commonmistakes that businesses make when it comes to storytelling? Yeah, look at oneof the probably one of the most. Well, I'll do a couple ofcommon mistakes. One is thinking something's a story. That's not a story.So when I was researching for this book, I went out to colleagues of minefrom around the globe. So could you know professional communicators that worked withcompanies wanting examples, wanting great examples of storytelling, and I got so manypeople send me information because I'm really excited at first and I would they wouldsend me these links. You know, company X is doing this great stuffon storytelling, and I'd look at the links and it would be a reallybeautifully shot, slick corporate video and I'm thinking, Hmm, I don't thinkthat's storytelling at all. It's a beauty, it's a beautiful corporate video, butit's not storytelling. I would get other people, you know, sendingme links. They're doing great. They've got these really good videos of theiremployee sharing stories around the company values. And that lights me up because becauseI think you cannot bring your company values alive with our people aren't sharing personalstories. And I'd click on the videos and they'd be employee saying our values, integrity, what it means to me is always telling the truth and whatand someone and I'm going that's not a story, that is just describing.And so there was all these. So I think the biggest mistake is itcompanies are calling something a story. That's not a story, it's it's atimeline, a timeline of your company. Is Not a story. So that'sthat's one of the biggest mistakes is they're thinking it's storytelling because they've called itsstorytelling, but none of it is a story. The other common mistake isthey think it's one story. So I often have people ring me to saywe want to go down this thing of brand storytelling. Can you help uscraft our brand story, as if there's one story that delivers your entire brand. And so every time I hear someone say our brand story, I justcorrect them to say there is not one story that delivers your brand. There's, as we spoke about before, it's ongoing stories that deliver your brand.So I think, I think that was the two common mistakes that I saw, which what was one of the catalysts for writing the book. But thenas I was researching the book that mistake was reinforced over and over again andthey're not in the book because they never made the book because they weren't brandstory tell story, they weren't stories. Yeah, I made a note herethat that stories don't just capture customer experience, they become customer experience. Now Ididn't leave enough context for myself to pick up on that, but whenI say that back to you? Does that resonate that that they don't justlike that? I think the interesting thing to me about it is typically whatwe're trying to do is say, Oh,...

...this customer had a great experience.Let's get their story and, you know, and share it with employeesso employees feel great about the work that they did and we can use itto pat a couple different team members from disparate teams who came together to helpthis customer and it'll be really good and maybe we can tell it to otherperspective customers that are like them. But ultimately this, when we make thisinto an operational, consistent, operational part of how we do things, thatthey become part of the customer experience. Hmm, I think they that.Yes, I do. They can become part of the experience, they alsobecome part of the culture. It's like the way we do this, andI truly believe that a few if we just we just look at one exampleof customer experience, if you've got a whole culture of delivering and and goingabove and beyond, that will filter out to the customer experience. So itis, you know, we've talked about it's constantly finding these stories and thencommunicating them initially internally to get people to go out. That's what we needto do. That's what we need to do. It's just it's just like, for example, you could have a value or you want to create aculture of team work. You've almost got a spot what people doing these greatthings and call them out and recognize for them. A Lot, a lotof companies will have, you know, awards or employee of the month orwhatever, and just give it to a person say oh, Ethan's got itthis week for team work was like. But what did they do? What? Tell me the story of what they did. That helps me understand what'sexpected of me as an employee and then what's expected of me to deliver greatcustomer service. And in the book I talk about Nordstroms, who were agreat example of just sharing internally, sharing stories after stories after stories of theirpeople delivering great customer service. And that helps people understand what it is andthe amount of the amount of people I know that have had their own greatnordstrom's customer experience story. It almost, when you talk about it, becomespart of the experiences. Like I'm another Nordstrom Story. So it's it isthat it can become part of the experience overall he had and it's got acocreation element that way. To nords from has been mentioned several times on thisshow. Sea Cut. A few companies in the book were including Sweet Green, is another one that comes to mind. As soon as they saw them aslike yeah, some of our some of our guests love that, lovethat company and brand. Let's go really quickly into the five types of storiesthat every business needs. I'm just going to read them really quickly and shareany thoughts you have on them. So I really like the way you brokethis down. So these are five types of stories that every business needs.So creation stories, I think those are company origin stories. Again, there'snot just one culture stories, core value stories, kinds of things. CustomerStories, probably stories that customers say back to us about their experience with us. Challenge Stories, which I think is a nice nuance that might fall intolike a creation or a culture bucket, except that it has its own soyou can really look at when people maybe came together and overcame hardships. Andthen community stories, which seems like a kind of falls maybe into a COcreation with customers. But if you like to elaborate on any or all ofthose, I would welcome that. Yeah, so creation. When I when Istarted researching the book, I knew there would be an ex number oftype of story, but I had no idea what that x would be andI just thought I'm just going to collect all these stories. I think initiallyI thought they'd be nine. I don't know why. You know when peoplego do at least it should be seven or nine. So anyway, Ihad X and I collected all these stories and they just sort of foul intothose five buckets and sort of all started with C, which is nice.Which is nice, very, very creative and consistent boast. I was say. So I won't go dot a lot of them in death, but justthe creation story and the reason actually actually...

...called creation, not just so itstarts we see, but normally people call that as the origin story or thefounders story, which is how the company started. But I think there's alsosome really powerful stories in how products start as well. So a creation storycould be how the company started, but also how a particular product started.For example, the culture stories is what you talked about. It's how you'resharing stories about the values and behaviors of the the company. So this isit's two things. It's how the leaders, how that you know the senior peoplein the organization or you know not even I'm not talking just the mostsenior, but throughout the company, how they're sharing personal stories of what thevalues mean to them and then also sharing stories of employees living the values.Customer stories is it's it moves beyond just customer customer testimonials. It moves beyondour well, this customer used our product and this is the result they got, which is almost sort of case, a big case study. So itdoesn't but it's almost like making the customer the hero. One of the companiesthat I featured heavily in the book is Columbia Restaurants, which is in restaurantin Florida. It's a family owned, fit generational family owned business, Ithink the oldest restaurant in Florida, and they they share, they share storiesextensively and I'll give you a really quick example of what I mean by acustomer story. So last year on Valentine's Day on their facebook page they shareda story of a couple that had been coming to their restaurant for their weddinganniversary for seventy two years in a row. And you know, they mentioned thecustomers name. They talked about how on their first whitting anniversary they cameto the restaurant. This second win at wedding anniversary, they came back andcoincidentally, was seated at the same table and for the next seventy years Columbiarestaurant reserves that table for them on their wedding anniversary every year and every yearthey come back. And so they sort of shared that story and say,you know, Happy Valentine's data, you know. But so it's a it'sjust a story about the customer. But by default you're sort of going howcool is that that the the restaurant did that and and how special that restaurantmust be that they've chosen every year to do that. So it's sort ofthese subtle messages of recognizing that the restaurants good, but it's always making thecustom of the hero. So so I love I love that story. Yeah, I liked so much of what you shared about them, including the justthe insane, insanely forward looking concept of hiring a journalist to help capture anddocument their stories. I mean, you know, when content marketing came onin you know what two thousand and five to two thousand and ten and like, really emerged as a useful practice. They think it made sense to starthiring journalists because they are a lot of the basic skills needed for it.But they were doing that decades, decades. Yeah, so either what you're referringto is I sort of you could see stories are all over their websites, they're on their menus, they're in their wine list, their stories everywhere. And I asked them, thinking similar to you, that they cottoned ontothis concept of content marketing maybe about ten, fifteen years ago. And so Iasked them when they made their commitment to use stories. It was onethousand nineteen forty two. One thousand nine hundred and forty two. They hireda journalist to write a daily newspaper article and they said it wasn't about thecompany. It wasn't sort of, I mean clearly they would have had topay them to do it, but it was never at advertising. The journalistwould write about what they called Characters of Columbia, and they still use thatphrase, and the characters of a Columbia. You know our example, the couplethat have had their wedding anniversary, or or the Barman that's worked therefor ten years, or you know how they purchased the Chandelier with over twothousand light bulbs in and stuff like that.

So one thousand nine hundred and fortytwo. Like when you talk about the content marketing, they will wayahead, way ahead of it. And then that commitment. It's a fifthgenerational organization. That commitment is still with the current owners. Yeah, it'sfantastic again for folks for are listening magnetic stories. I think that there are, how many five key studies towards the end. Yeah, there's five hitthat. There was five companies that just when I the more I spoke tothem. They were doing so much great things with storytelling. I sort ofthought, all they deserve their own little special chapter each. So yeah,they're they're sort of the case studies at the end. Yeah, I thoughtit was a nice complement to all the frameworks and kind of processes that weredetailed in all the preceding pages. Switching up just a little bit really quickly, you did an executive education program at Harvard Business School on Women and power. I would just love I'd be remiss if I did not use our timetogether to get your perspective on what was your motivation? Where do you thinkwe are right now? What do you may be discouraged by or hopeful about? What is the state of the professional world with regard to women in power, from your perspective it look? I think, the motivation of doing thatprogram I done an adaptive leadership program at Harvard a couple of years earlier andwhen I worked in corporate there was, you know, you got a lotof professional development, you got a lot of leadership training and then when yougo out on your own you sort of got to make conscious efforts to dothat and I was conscious that I hadn't really done any serious professional development forabout ten years. So the concept of going to Harvard, you know,was was just pretty cool because, you know, for the rest of yourlife you can say when I was at Harvard's like you're really smart. Andthen a couple of years later, after I did the adaptive leadership this womenand Power Program came up and one of one of the probably the driving reasonI did it is because, besides doing teaching, leaders storytelling, I wasdoing a little bit of work with women, female leadership program so working predominantly withwith senior females in organized station and I wanted to make sure that whatwhat we were doing in that space was was, you know, leading edge. But there's a bit of jargon leading edge, but wanted to make sureit was, it was spot on. So I did do that and andI was glad to say that we were, you know, delivering world class programsin that but a look, I think the whole women. You know, I'm in Australia and we're going through some pretty I think. I thinkAustralia at the moment's going through our own me to movement, not in thefilm industry but in government. There's, you know, there's there's a big, loud voice to say that okay, enough, enough of the retric enoughof the talk about equal, it's not and we need to take some seriouschange. So at the moment I think there's real hope for everyone that thisis going to be a little bit of a change for the better. Andyou know, and look, you know I'm a white female in Australia.I know I've got it very, very good, but you can still seethat there's it's we're not quite there yet. So let's just hope we can,we can see a change. Yeah, move past rhetoric. If you've enjoyedthis episode with Gabrielle, I've got two more that I know you'll enjoy. Episode Ninety six with Michael Ashford, who's the director of marketing at asoftware company called the receptionist. We call that one four steps to better storytelling. And I was smiling inside, Gabrielle, when you mentioned making the customer ofthe hero, because my conversation and episode ninety six with my goal wasa lot about the essence of Donald Miller's story brand in some of the someof the language and concepts that he brings to the brings to the work.And then episode one hundred and twelve with Lisa Earl McLeod. This will bemy last case study reference. I promised transpower New Zealand. They did somethingthat she has written two books about, which is discovering there what she callsnoble purpose. So she wrote a book called leading with noble purpose and anotherone about selling with noble purpose. So, you know, discovering this noble purposethrough conversation and then making it a...

...part of culture and conversation going forward. That was episode one hundred and twelve with Lisa Earl McLeod. Before Ilet you go, Gabrielle, a few opportunities for you, including telling peoplewhere they can follow up on this conversation, learn more about your books, etc. But let's start with two opportunities for you. One is thinking ormentioning someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career and thengiving a nod or a shout out to a brand or company that always deliversa great experience for you as a customer. I'M gonna go the first question.I'm going to go a bit different because I could quite easily reel offa whole lot of, you know, people that have supported me early mycareer and my parents and all that, but I'm going to go with myexecutive manager, at least Turner, because she just makes my life easier andone of the things that she does is look after all the marketing of thebook and Ethan, I know when we sent the book to You, thefirst thing you said to me was whoever looks after your marketing, it's donean amazing job, because you know, the book comes wrapped it with themagnets, with the thing it just and you just said, Oh my God, it is such. It was such it made, you know, madesuch an impression that that's the first thing you said to me. So whenyou've got someone who is behind your back and supporting you and making enhancing thecustomer experience, which is what we're all about, and I truly believe thatany assistant you have or support people you are is an extension of your brand, so you need to choose them wisely. So it shout out to a leaseand I'm going to do a shout out to a shoe company. Youyou've read the book, either not. You've read the book a lot.I'm very impressed with your with your notes on the book. You know thatshoes became a bit of a thing for me. became didn't mean to,but became part of my brand, and it was only through this shoe companycalled habit shoes, their and Melbourne designer. They do these amazing, amazing flatshoes that I love and funky and so it's just an amazing how acompany I would never have thought of it, but can SPEC can become part ofyour brand and who you are. So I would be shout out tothem. Yeah, and I appreciate that caution to that you offered there andin saying how wonderful elases is. The this, you know, when webuild our supply chain, in our in our network to deliver our product andservice all of them, we need to take responsibility for that and they think. You know, we didn't get into it, but you talked about someof the themes, like some of the overarching trends that are driving the importanceof meaningful, authentic, consistent storytelling, and one of them is, asyou know, essentially the ability for anyone to call us out at any time. And you know, if people get frustrated with some aspect of your delivery, even if it wasn't your fault, you still need to take that ownership. Just like, you know, we need to look for opportunities to celebratethe people that make the product or service come through, and it's best way. This has been super and so and Nathan, just to even Kevin.It's the whole concept of brand storytelling is you've got to it's almost these educationand empowering piece of the people that work for you every day. They havean opportunity to create those or to do something that creates great stories or createsthe in a great customer experience. But you've got to it's almostly got toeducate them that that's the case and then let them do it in power themto do it. So, which is again the whole intentional thing of brandstorytelling. So good. How can someone a if they're listening at this point, they obviously enjoyed everything you had to share. They're probably interested learning more. Where would you send people to learn more about you, about your booksor anything else? Yet look, the easiest thing is to go to mywebsite. So Gabriel dolandcom on that. The you know, there's a wholefree resources, like there's a seven day storytelling start a kit, which Ithink is a good place to start. And, as it says, it'sfree and it's seven days and it's a starter kit. So we get youstarted. And if you're interested in the book, like all the usual youknow Amazon, you know bands, and I will all the usual online storesand need stores will have the book.

But ol those details are on thewebsite as well. So guybrieldollancom super and I will link that up I'll linkup the shoe company and some other things that Bombombcom podcast. We drop invideo clips links to things that came up in the conversation, so you canalways visit there as well. Thank you so much for your time today.You got up early for me. I appreciate it. Where hours apart,but we're still able to come together and I enjoyed it very much. Thanks, Ethan. Of really really enjoyed it. Clear Communication, human connection, higherconversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videosaccelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast.Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create anddeliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tacticsby subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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