The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 137 · 1 year ago

137. Enhancing EX and CX Through Brand Storytelling w/ Gabrielle Dolan

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If your brand is the stories people share about you, the concept of brand storytelling is how you take control of those stories by bringing humanity into the way you lead and communicate.

In this episode, I interview Gabrielle Dolan, Speaker and Author at Gabrielle Dolan Consulting and Founder of Jargon Free Fridays, about the trends driving brand storytelling and how to influence stories told about you.

Gabrielle spoke with me about:

- The power of telling magnetic stories

- 5 types of stories that every business needs

- Being intentional, authentic, and strategic about sharing who you are

- The origin story for Jargon Free Fridays

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- GabrielleDolan.com

- Gabrielle on LinkedIn

- Gabrielle on Twitter

- Books by Gabrielle

- Elise Turner on LinkedIn

- Habbot Shoes (Flats)

- Ferguson Plarre Bakehouses

- Mekong Capital

- Columbia Restaurant

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When we share stories and when we share personal stories. Every time we share a personal story we reveal something about ourselves and it makes us more. It makes us more, for want of a bitter word, human. It makes us human, it makes us more relatables as a Lata, relatable as a person. We want to deal with an ultimately, we're humans and we want to deal with people we like. So so sharing stories does that. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Magnetic stories attract and connect with customers. Magnetic stories also attract and engage employees, and because we all want to do both of those things, we've brought in an expert on brand storytelling to help. She's the best selling author of six books, including real communication, how to be you and lead, true stories for work, the essential guide to business storytelling, and her latest magnetic stories connect with customers and engage employees with brand storytelling. She's an international speaker and educator with a client list that includes organizations like v Sir, Amazon, Voda phone and the Obama Foundation. She's also the founder of Jargon Free Fridays, which sounds both fun and completely necessary. Gabrielle Dol and, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you, Ethan. I'm very, very excited to be here. Yeah, so before we are going at you've got to tell you a little bit about jargon free Fridays, like what was the origin story and how's it going? Yeah, look, Jargon Free Fridays came about, I think, because I'm a very big fan of picking people up on unnecessary jargon. So I had a client send me a debit cartoon once on on the you know, use of jargon, and it was a Friday and I just I flipped it out to my database on Linkedin and sort of said, here's a challenge for today. Let's try not to use jargon just today, on Friday, and as soon as I did it I thought, HMM, this could be a fun thing. I could do like every Friday. So the concept is it's a fun way to raise awareness to you know, what I think is a pretty serious communication problem in business. It's the unnecessary use of jargon and acronyms and we all we all do it, we all have it, and the idea is it's pretty hard to give up. So what if we just decided one day a week we would try to give up a bit of jargon that we use? Maybe we know we use a bit of jargon like pivot or journey or and we just try not to use that on Friday. Yeah, it's really fun and it just just the self awareness and the conscious awareness alone probably makes a massive improve me throughout the week. Yeah, absolutely, and I look what you know. I when I do my keynotes and training on workshops, I mentioned jargon and everyone sits there and go, oh my, that's what we say, that's what we do, and they hang their head in shame and have a bit of a laugh and and all it is. It's like it's just self awareness. Just be aware how much you actually using it. Yeah, really good. Well, thank you for taking that on. I need to pay closer attention because it sounds like fun and I'll probably catch myself using jargon because I know that I do and I know that everyone listening does. To just with the two examples you tossed off their cell before we get going any farther, I would love for you to define customer experience. When I see that to you, Gabrielle, what does it mean to me? It means, and I assumed it looking of good customer experience, but I guess the customer experience is, you know, to me a really good customer experiences is when you've had such a great experience that you go and tell people about it and it's almost like it's unexpected, but it's sort of shouldn't be, but I think it's unexpected really...

...great service. I remember last year I had to take my daughter to get a cof test and I was one of those drive through covertest and I still remember the nurse came up. I still remember her name, and name was Alisa, because that's the name of my executive manager. And she came up and she treated it like we're at a hotel. She went hello, have you been here before? Blah, blah, and and she was sort of being half funny, going okay, well, please come again if you need to, and the whole experience just made and this was our first time, so you don't know what to expect and I just came home and told so many people about it. I think I even wrote a blog about it. It was such great customer service. I love it it. I mean you you spoke basically to the literal definition of remarkable worth talking about, and you also bridged like I'm imagining that woman that you were describing and it makes me think like it was probably makes her jobs so much more fun. So it's like it makes this connection that you do in the subtitle of magnetic stories is, you know, the relationship between customer experience and employee experience. Yeah, and I think it also shows that, you know, everyone's capable of giving great customer experience, whether you're, you know, trying to sell someone a pair of shoes, or you're delivery in a service or you're actually giving a covid test to them, there's opportunities to give really good customer experience and I think a lot of the reason why it doesn't happen is because I think a lot of people in those positions don't even think that this is a customer experience. And and and it is bright, which kind of goes back to the jargon thing. We need to be selfaware at least as the provider of the experience, that every moment and matters and that it's adding up to something that hopefully, is remarkable in a positive way. As you said now, in magnetic stories, which I enjoyed very much, you had a set of case studies in the back and I'm going to refer to a couple few of them maybe during the conversation, if it comes up. I wanted to start with a quote from Steve Play of Ferguson Plari Bake House in Australia, because he speaks to what I've regarded come to regard by having conversations with smart and kind people like you, as the essence of customer experience, and so I'm going to read it and and tell me, give me some context around it or your own thoughts on it. For every dollar a customer gives you fifty senses for the product, and will make that as well as we can, but the other fifty cents is for how you make them feel, and that's the essence, in my opinions, how we make them feel. So half of the dollar that a customer gives used for the product, half of it is for how you make them feel and continuing the quote. If customers don't get a return on that second fifty cents, it doesn't matter how good the product is. Yeah, I loved I love that and I love speaking a stay of Steve. He's the fifth generational owner of a really wellknown bake house in in Australia. Our player Ferguson's it like anyone in Australia would or in Melbourne would know that. And and he's right. You know, they make pies and Saucy rowls and vanilla slices and he's so. I remember him saying no one actually needs one of those like but it's like when they buy it and and he said it's you want them walking away feeling really happy from that experience because a lot of time that's sort of what they're buying and for. So, yeah, I love the concept that you think if you're delivering a good or a service, that I love the whole concept that. Think about it. If people are any paying half the price for the actual physical thing you're giving them and paying the other half for that experience, wouldn't that make a difference to what you could do to that experience? You could, you could really might that real value for money. Yeah, absolutely, and I think that's true in so many cases. I immediately had a few ideas come to mind and when you start thinking about it's like we could cut the price in half and it would just be, you know, a bargain Bin, kind of no frills, not fun, not interesting, not nice experience. And if people just want the cheapest price, they can get that. But what...

...most of us of basic means are willing and able to do is pay that extra for a better experience. Another one. I'm not going to read a quote on this one, but when you're talking about me con capital in Vietnam, it really struck me and knows, as we all constantly talk on this show about the relationship between employee experience and customer experience, and this will be our bridge a little bit into storytelling. Is the primary audience of their storytelling is their employees. It's not the invested companies, it's not their potential investors, it's not the general public. Talk a little bit about that, like the importance of creating experiences in and doing storytelling for our employees, not just for our customers. I think when we start going down this road we immediately think about what we can and should be doing for our potential and current customers. But you know, and employee can be the primary audience for some of our most important work. Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting, Nathan, for I've been doing this for sixteen years and I have predominantly been working with businesses and senior leaders on how they share personal stories for their employees. So it literally I when I started this it was very much an internal focus. It's probably only over the you know, the last decade and and a half of been doing this that the concept of sharing stories with your customers has become a big part of my work as well. So PUTT and I and I love working with me Kong, because I had a really that is such a massive commitment to start collecting stories. I remember when I first see you called me, he said I want you to come over for three days to work with us, and my initials, wow, that is a big investment and we did three days and then we did another couple of days a few months later. But what they do is they've got some guide I guess, values, what any other company would say. These are our values and they've got guiding fourteen behaviors. What they do is when they invest in companies. They invest in these companies, you know, to help them grow and turn them around, but they sort of have to follow these values and behavior. So they wanted to start collecting stories to demonstrate that. But initially what they've rightly said is we need our company to be living and breathing these values and behaviors and we need all our employees to do them as well. So Chris the the managing director of me Cong he is, just said that, you know, when people come into the company, the stories they share about the values and the behaviors gets everyone in a pretty much up to speech straightaway to sort of this is our culture, this is what we do, this is how we behave, and I would say out of my thirty years working in corporate it was them living their values. was instantaneously the moment I started working with them. I remember the first day I've rolled up. The session was meant to start at nine o'clock. I was expecting everyone to roll in it, you know, nine or just after nine, which is normal. Everyone, every single person, was there like ten to nine ready to start, and I thank them for their you know, promptness and Chris said he was surprised. He said. Well, one of our values is respect, and so if you say you're going to be at a meeting on time, you beat a meeting on time and it was it was just and and that is one of many, many examples of where they live their values and called out people are not living their values because it was such intrenched and the reason it was in trench just because they use stories to communicate them. It's fantastic. I love that contact done that story in a raising my own personal feeling, which is that ten minutes earliers, five minutes late. I liked if I do be ready for things too, but you really teat us up nicely for our day here over the next I don't know, fifteen twenty minutes into storytelling in particular, and I guess will start with, you know, just so that we're all on the same page, listeners and you and me. When I see...

...storytelling, what is that capture or what is it encapsule Ete for you, like when you say we're talking about storytelling and brand storytelling. What is that like? What is the essence of it? Yeah, I always like before I just before I describe what brand storytelling is, I like to describe what brand is. Yeah, it's what you know you there's lots of definition on brand, what it is, and I one of my favorites comes from Jeff Bezos, who where he said your brand is what people say about you when you're not in the room. My little tweak on that is it's the stories people share about you when you're not in the room, because I think ultimately we're how people describe something. Is I will tell a story. So to me, your brand is the stories people share about you when you're not in the room and where we know brand is important. We all have a brand individually. We all have a brand. As companies we have a brand and brand will determine if people employ you, if people work for you, if people buy you, if people invest in you, refer, you, recommend, you support you. So your brand is really important. So if that's so important, we should take control of it. So the concept of brand storytelling. So if your brand is the stories people share about you, the concept of brand storytelling is how do you take control of the stories? And there's two ways you can take sort of you can influence that. One is you can do things that create stories. So you know that example of the the nurse that did the covertest created. So did something that that created a story that I shared. The other thing is that you can actively share stories. So if you want to be known for Great Customer Service, Yes, do it, absolutely do it to create stories. But what stories can you share of you know, perhaps your employees delivering exceptional customer service, so not only externally but also internally. That we talked about so all the other employees go, oh, that's what we mean, that's what we mean by exceptional customer service. So to me, brand storytelling is taking control of the stories that you share and taking trying to influence the stories people share about you. Awesome. I don't know that we'll get into the details of it, but for folks who are really interested in what Gabrielle just shared in magnetic stories, it breaks down a process things that you can do. This is all about being intentional. I think for me, just thinking about my own career and a variety of organization, certainly stories have been an important part of brand internally and externally, but it was never a holy systematic I mean I would periodically in a variety of my roles and a variety of companies, including where I am now, with bomb bomb, you know, reach out to customers to get their stories and actively solicit those, but it was primary too, primarily to market the service and it was usually an acute event. Right. It wasn't this ongoing, persistent effort. That's just part of how we do it around here and I implied in what you said to me. Decide, be curious your reaction is. It's not only about being remarkable and reinforcing the values, but it's really creating an evidence and like this constant living trail of evidence that we are who we say we are, for our own benefit and for people who are trying to evaluate if we can be taken at our word, if we're trustworthy and it for good and all the other things that we try to find in partners and vendors. Yeah, I look really love that description to how you've captured it. It's intentional, what you say. It's the concept. He's intentional and it's ongoing. It's like it's ongoing of almost like providing evidence, but it's not, but it's ongoing demonstration of these is who we really are. So it's intentional, it's authentic, it's strategic and it's got to be ongoing. It's not just one story that we sharing constantly. Awesome. I'm going to read you a oneliner out of magnetic stories and it has two elements to that I'm particularly interested in. So the line is bringing...

...humanity to the way business people communicate is a calling in career. And I'll say it one more time. Bringing humanity to the way business people communicate is a calling in a career rear and the two things I'd love for you to expound down here. First is the choice of the word humanity. How, how is humanity intimately connected with the storytelling process and better business communication? And then speak to the calling and career kind of what? When did this occur to you and you say like this is my life's work, because I think we're all looking for that. I think sometimes some of us think we found it someone who is willing to express that out of printed page. You know, I would love to know kind of what that process was like for you. So kind of two questions there. Yeah, Hicks, when you when you just read that back to me, the calling, I was like, I don't want it to people to think it's like it was a religious, you know, Aha moments folk thing, but I guess it's. It certainly has been with me my entire life and career, I think. And and so if I, if I answer the first question about bringing humanity into the way we, you know, do business and lead and communicate, I'm all about, you know, just being real. So, like my previous book was about real communication, and part of that is it's two things. It's what we do and who we are, but what we say. So I've the whole leadership bit was a you know, I'd work with some people that I thought that would just terrible, like terrible people to work with and then someone to go on. But they're really nice outside of work and I never got that. I never got the concept how someone could be really nice out at work but a complete, you know, Dick to work with. So that in you know, and I get, I get that we act differently in different situations, but I truly believe that, you know, ninety eight percent of you should be the same and you just maybe tweaking, tweaking a little bit for different audience. So this whole concept of, you know, be human and stop trying to be the you know, just because you've got a position of a leader doesn't mean you have to put up this, you know, false and pretend to be someone else. So this is where the whole concept of the jargon free, not using jargon and using stories, because I think when we share stories and when we share personal stories, every time we share a personal story, we reveal something about ourselves and it makes us more it makes us more, for want of a better word, human. It makes us human, it makes us more relatables as a leader, relatable as a person. We want to deal with and ultimately we're humans and we want to deal with people we like. So so we're sharing stories, does that. And the whole concept of jargon is just can you just say what you mean, like like, please, just say what we mean. And and this started off really early. You know, I started my career in technology and the amount of acronyms in the technology industry I remember very early, like it was in my early twenties and I was in technology and I had to ring up for a replacement of a fan in an IBM and I was looking through it was a big printed you know, we've been printed, and I'm looking under F for Ban for the replacement number and I couldn't find it. And so I had to ring the help desk and they said it's under a go why? And they gets air movement device and I just remember thinking that is seriously. Someone has renamed fan to air movement device and, you know, reduced it to an acronym IMD, and I just and I guess, I guess to me that was my experience over thirty years ago of unnecessary acronyms and and I still remember. I still remember working with a leader and he always used to say the words executional excellence and I remember saying to him, I'm saying, Jeff, what when you say executional excellence, what do you mean? Because I'm not really sure I know what it stand means and I'm not sure anyone else does either. And he responded with a description,...

...again using a whole lot of jargon, and I just said, if you had to put it in your own words, how would you describe it? And he was got really annoyed at being he said, will put simply, executional excellence means once we decide we're going to do something, let's make sure we do it right. And I just looked in my goat. Why don't you say that? Because because I reckon your entire team would get behind that. Not Executional excellence, which sounds like you just killed someone but did it really well. Great, so much fun stuff and they're and helpful stuff. What I would love to know is common mystique. So I assume that you're probably just reading the key studies and reading the book and all the examples and stories and there you're dealing with some really good and smart companies. But I would assume that either through conversations related to jargon free Fridays or maybe some clients you didn't mention in the book or stories that you've read in the press or elsewhere, common mistake. So I think I'll identify a couple. Not being intentional about collecting or sharing stories, not having them necessarily be authentic in some way. What are some other common mistakes that businesses make when it comes to storytelling? Yeah, look at one of the probably one of the most. Well, I'll do a couple of common mistakes. One is thinking something's a story. That's not a story. So when I was researching for this book, I went out to colleagues of mine from around the globe. So could you know professional communicators that worked with companies wanting examples, wanting great examples of storytelling, and I got so many people send me information because I'm really excited at first and I would they would send me these links. You know, company X is doing this great stuff on storytelling, and I'd look at the links and it would be a really beautifully shot, slick corporate video and I'm thinking, Hmm, I don't think that's storytelling at all. It's a beauty, it's a beautiful corporate video, but it's not storytelling. I would get other people, you know, sending me links. They're doing great. They've got these really good videos of their employee sharing stories around the company values. And that lights me up because because I think you cannot bring your company values alive with our people aren't sharing personal stories. And I'd click on the videos and they'd be employee saying our values, integrity, what it means to me is always telling the truth and what and someone and I'm going that's not a story, that is just describing. And so there was all these. So I think the biggest mistake is it companies are calling something a story. That's not a story, it's it's a timeline, a timeline of your company. Is Not a story. So that's that's one of the biggest mistakes is they're thinking it's storytelling because they've called its storytelling, but none of it is a story. The other common mistake is they think it's one story. So I often have people ring me to say we want to go down this thing of brand storytelling. Can you help us craft our brand story, as if there's one story that delivers your entire brand. And so every time I hear someone say our brand story, I just correct them to say there is not one story that delivers your brand. There's, as we spoke about before, it's ongoing stories that deliver your brand. So I think, I think that was the two common mistakes that I saw, which what was one of the catalysts for writing the book. But then as I was researching the book that mistake was reinforced over and over again and they're not in the book because they never made the book because they weren't brand story tell story, they weren't stories. Yeah, I made a note here that that stories don't just capture customer experience, they become customer experience. Now I didn't leave enough context for myself to pick up on that, but when I say that back to you? Does that resonate that that they don't just like that? I think the interesting thing to me about it is typically what we're trying to do is say, Oh,...

...this customer had a great experience. Let's get their story and, you know, and share it with employees so employees feel great about the work that they did and we can use it to pat a couple different team members from disparate teams who came together to help this customer and it'll be really good and maybe we can tell it to other perspective customers that are like them. But ultimately this, when we make this into an operational, consistent, operational part of how we do things, that they become part of the customer experience. Hmm, I think they that. Yes, I do. They can become part of the experience, they also become part of the culture. It's like the way we do this, and I truly believe that a few if we just we just look at one example of customer experience, if you've got a whole culture of delivering and and going above and beyond, that will filter out to the customer experience. So it is, you know, we've talked about it's constantly finding these stories and then communicating them initially internally to get people to go out. That's what we need to do. That's what we need to do. It's just it's just like, for example, you could have a value or you want to create a culture of team work. You've almost got a spot what people doing these great things and call them out and recognize for them. A Lot, a lot of companies will have, you know, awards or employee of the month or whatever, and just give it to a person say oh, Ethan's got it this week for team work was like. But what did they do? What? Tell me the story of what they did. That helps me understand what's expected of me as an employee and then what's expected of me to deliver great customer service. And in the book I talk about Nordstroms, who were a great example of just sharing internally, sharing stories after stories after stories of their people delivering great customer service. And that helps people understand what it is and the amount of the amount of people I know that have had their own great nordstrom's customer experience story. It almost, when you talk about it, becomes part of the experiences. Like I'm another Nordstrom Story. So it's it is that it can become part of the experience overall he had and it's got a cocreation element that way. To nords from has been mentioned several times on this show. Sea Cut. A few companies in the book were including Sweet Green, is another one that comes to mind. As soon as they saw them as like yeah, some of our some of our guests love that, love that company and brand. Let's go really quickly into the five types of stories that every business needs. I'm just going to read them really quickly and share any thoughts you have on them. So I really like the way you broke this down. So these are five types of stories that every business needs. So creation stories, I think those are company origin stories. Again, there's not just one culture stories, core value stories, kinds of things. Customer Stories, probably stories that customers say back to us about their experience with us. Challenge Stories, which I think is a nice nuance that might fall into like a creation or a culture bucket, except that it has its own so you can really look at when people maybe came together and overcame hardships. And then community stories, which seems like a kind of falls maybe into a CO creation with customers. But if you like to elaborate on any or all of those, I would welcome that. Yeah, so creation. When I when I started researching the book, I knew there would be an ex number of type of story, but I had no idea what that x would be and I just thought I'm just going to collect all these stories. I think initially I thought they'd be nine. I don't know why. You know when people go do at least it should be seven or nine. So anyway, I had X and I collected all these stories and they just sort of foul into those five buckets and sort of all started with C, which is nice. Which is nice, very, very creative and consistent boast. I was say. So I won't go dot a lot of them in death, but just the creation story and the reason actually actually...

...called creation, not just so it starts we see, but normally people call that as the origin story or the founders story, which is how the company started. But I think there's also some really powerful stories in how products start as well. So a creation story could be how the company started, but also how a particular product started. For example, the culture stories is what you talked about. It's how you're sharing stories about the values and behaviors of the the company. So this is it's two things. It's how the leaders, how that you know the senior people in the organization or you know not even I'm not talking just the most senior, but throughout the company, how they're sharing personal stories of what the values mean to them and then also sharing stories of employees living the values. Customer stories is it's it moves beyond just customer customer testimonials. It moves beyond our well, this customer used our product and this is the result they got, which is almost sort of case, a big case study. So it doesn't but it's almost like making the customer the hero. One of the companies that I featured heavily in the book is Columbia Restaurants, which is in restaurant in Florida. It's a family owned, fit generational family owned business, I think the oldest restaurant in Florida, and they they share, they share stories extensively and I'll give you a really quick example of what I mean by a customer story. So last year on Valentine's Day on their facebook page they shared a story of a couple that had been coming to their restaurant for their wedding anniversary for seventy two years in a row. And you know, they mentioned the customers name. They talked about how on their first whitting anniversary they came to the restaurant. This second win at wedding anniversary, they came back and coincidentally, was seated at the same table and for the next seventy years Columbia restaurant reserves that table for them on their wedding anniversary every year and every year they come back. And so they sort of shared that story and say, you know, Happy Valentine's data, you know. But so it's a it's just a story about the customer. But by default you're sort of going how cool is that that the the restaurant did that and and how special that restaurant must be that they've chosen every year to do that. So it's sort of these subtle messages of recognizing that the restaurants good, but it's always making the custom of the hero. So so I love I love that story. Yeah, I liked so much of what you shared about them, including the just the insane, insanely forward looking concept of hiring a journalist to help capture and document their stories. I mean, you know, when content marketing came on in you know what two thousand and five to two thousand and ten and like, really emerged as a useful practice. They think it made sense to start hiring journalists because they are a lot of the basic skills needed for it. But they were doing that decades, decades. Yeah, so either what you're referring to is I sort of you could see stories are all over their websites, they're on their menus, they're in their wine list, their stories everywhere. And I asked them, thinking similar to you, that they cottoned onto this concept of content marketing maybe about ten, fifteen years ago. And so I asked them when they made their commitment to use stories. It was one thousand nineteen forty two. One thousand nine hundred and forty two. They hired a journalist to write a daily newspaper article and they said it wasn't about the company. It wasn't sort of, I mean clearly they would have had to pay them to do it, but it was never at advertising. The journalist would write about what they called Characters of Columbia, and they still use that phrase, and the characters of a Columbia. You know our example, the couple that have had their wedding anniversary, or or the Barman that's worked there for ten years, or you know how they purchased the Chandelier with over two thousand light bulbs in and stuff like that.

So one thousand nine hundred and forty two. Like when you talk about the content marketing, they will way ahead, way ahead of it. And then that commitment. It's a fifth generational organization. That commitment is still with the current owners. Yeah, it's fantastic again for folks for are listening magnetic stories. I think that there are, how many five key studies towards the end. Yeah, there's five hit that. There was five companies that just when I the more I spoke to them. They were doing so much great things with storytelling. I sort of thought, all they deserve their own little special chapter each. So yeah, they're they're sort of the case studies at the end. Yeah, I thought it was a nice complement to all the frameworks and kind of processes that were detailed in all the preceding pages. Switching up just a little bit really quickly, you did an executive education program at Harvard Business School on Women and power. I would just love I'd be remiss if I did not use our time together to get your perspective on what was your motivation? Where do you think we are right now? What do you may be discouraged by or hopeful about? What is the state of the professional world with regard to women in power, from your perspective it look? I think, the motivation of doing that program I done an adaptive leadership program at Harvard a couple of years earlier and when I worked in corporate there was, you know, you got a lot of professional development, you got a lot of leadership training and then when you go out on your own you sort of got to make conscious efforts to do that and I was conscious that I hadn't really done any serious professional development for about ten years. So the concept of going to Harvard, you know, was was just pretty cool because, you know, for the rest of your life you can say when I was at Harvard's like you're really smart. And then a couple of years later, after I did the adaptive leadership this women and Power Program came up and one of one of the probably the driving reason I did it is because, besides doing teaching, leaders storytelling, I was doing a little bit of work with women, female leadership program so working predominantly with with senior females in organized station and I wanted to make sure that what what we were doing in that space was was, you know, leading edge. But there's a bit of jargon leading edge, but wanted to make sure it was, it was spot on. So I did do that and and I was glad to say that we were, you know, delivering world class programs in that but a look, I think the whole women. You know, I'm in Australia and we're going through some pretty I think. I think Australia at the moment's going through our own me to movement, not in the film industry but in government. There's, you know, there's there's a big, loud voice to say that okay, enough, enough of the retric enough of the talk about equal, it's not and we need to take some serious change. So at the moment I think there's real hope for everyone that this is going to be a little bit of a change for the better. And you know, and look, you know I'm a white female in Australia. I know I've got it very, very good, but you can still see that there's it's we're not quite there yet. So let's just hope we can, we can see a change. Yeah, move past rhetoric. If you've enjoyed this episode with Gabrielle, I've got two more that I know you'll enjoy. Episode Ninety six with Michael Ashford, who's the director of marketing at a software company called the receptionist. We call that one four steps to better storytelling. And I was smiling inside, Gabrielle, when you mentioned making the customer of the hero, because my conversation and episode ninety six with my goal was a lot about the essence of Donald Miller's story brand in some of the some of the language and concepts that he brings to the brings to the work. And then episode one hundred and twelve with Lisa Earl McLeod. This will be my last case study reference. I promised transpower New Zealand. They did something that she has written two books about, which is discovering there what she calls noble purpose. So she wrote a book called leading with noble purpose and another one about selling with noble purpose. So, you know, discovering this noble purpose through conversation and then making it a...

...part of culture and conversation going forward. That was episode one hundred and twelve with Lisa Earl McLeod. Before I let you go, Gabrielle, a few opportunities for you, including telling people where they can follow up on this conversation, learn more about your books, etc. But let's start with two opportunities for you. One is thinking or mentioning someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career and then giving a nod or a shout out to a brand or company that always delivers a great experience for you as a customer. I'M gonna go the first question. I'm going to go a bit different because I could quite easily reel off a whole lot of, you know, people that have supported me early my career and my parents and all that, but I'm going to go with my executive manager, at least Turner, because she just makes my life easier and one of the things that she does is look after all the marketing of the book and Ethan, I know when we sent the book to You, the first thing you said to me was whoever looks after your marketing, it's done an amazing job, because you know, the book comes wrapped it with the magnets, with the thing it just and you just said, Oh my God, it is such. It was such it made, you know, made such an impression that that's the first thing you said to me. So when you've got someone who is behind your back and supporting you and making enhancing the customer experience, which is what we're all about, and I truly believe that any assistant you have or support people you are is an extension of your brand, so you need to choose them wisely. So it shout out to a lease and I'm going to do a shout out to a shoe company. You you've read the book, either not. You've read the book a lot. I'm very impressed with your with your notes on the book. You know that shoes became a bit of a thing for me. became didn't mean to, but became part of my brand, and it was only through this shoe company called habit shoes, their and Melbourne designer. They do these amazing, amazing flat shoes that I love and funky and so it's just an amazing how a company I would never have thought of it, but can SPEC can become part of your brand and who you are. So I would be shout out to them. Yeah, and I appreciate that caution to that you offered there and in saying how wonderful elases is. The this, you know, when we build our supply chain, in our in our network to deliver our product and service all of them, we need to take responsibility for that and they think. You know, we didn't get into it, but you talked about some of the themes, like some of the overarching trends that are driving the importance of meaningful, authentic, consistent storytelling, and one of them is, as you know, essentially the ability for anyone to call us out at any time. And you know, if people get frustrated with some aspect of your delivery, even if it wasn't your fault, you still need to take that ownership. Just like, you know, we need to look for opportunities to celebrate the people that make the product or service come through, and it's best way. This has been super and so and Nathan, just to even Kevin. It's the whole concept of brand storytelling is you've got to it's almost these education and empowering piece of the people that work for you every day. They have an opportunity to create those or to do something that creates great stories or creates the in a great customer experience. But you've got to it's almostly got to educate them that that's the case and then let them do it in power them to do it. So, which is again the whole intentional thing of brand storytelling. So good. How can someone a if they're listening at this point, they obviously enjoyed everything you had to share. They're probably interested learning more. Where would you send people to learn more about you, about your books or anything else? Yet look, the easiest thing is to go to my website. So Gabriel dolandcom on that. The you know, there's a whole free resources, like there's a seven day storytelling start a kit, which I think is a good place to start. And, as it says, it's free and it's seven days and it's a starter kit. So we get you started. And if you're interested in the book, like all the usual you know Amazon, you know bands, and I will all the usual online stores and need stores will have the book.

But ol those details are on the website as well. So guybrieldollancom super and I will link that up I'll link up the shoe company and some other things that Bombombcom podcast. We drop in video clips links to things that came up in the conversation, so you can always visit there as well. Thank you so much for your time today. You got up early for me. I appreciate it. Where hours apart, but we're still able to come together and I enjoyed it very much. Thanks, Ethan. Of really really enjoyed it. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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