The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 3 months ago

162. The Shared Belief Behind Human-Centered Communication w/ Steve Pacinelli


No one individual has all the answers to everything. With a concept as broad yet essential as human-centered communication, it was going to take many experts — 11, to be exact — to begin to equip us with the knowledge we need to recenter our communication around people. 

In this episode, I have the pleasure of chatting with my longtime friend and two-time coauthor, Steve Pacinelli, CMO at BombBomb, about what he learned from the process of writing our book, Human-Centered Communication.  

Join us as we discuss:

  • Why customer experience is built on the exploration of a shared belief
  • Where the idea for the book originated
  • What the big idea behind human-centered communication is
  • Who each expert is and what you can expect in each of their chapters
  • What interactive experiences we created around the book

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Human Center communication. It comes downto having sound messaging, sound communication. It comes down to putting the needs, once an interest, of your recipient on equal level playing field as yourown and then delivering it in the best possible medium to make that connection.The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver abetter experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success expertscreate internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal andhuman way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, EthanButte. Today's guest is a longtime friend and longtime team member. He's thechief marketing officer at bombomb and together we CO authored two books. The firstis rehumanize your business, how personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience.That was released by Wiley about two years ago, and the brand new oneis human centered communication, a business case against digital pollution. This one releaseson fast company press next week. For those of you listening later, that'sOctober twelve, two thousand and twenty one. He joined us back on episode sixof this podcast. Connecting with customers by exploring a shared belief and forthe past couple of months he's Co hosted this podcast with me. Today he'sthe guest again, because human centered communication has such a big impact on Cx. Steve Passinelli, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. I'm so gladthat you invite me back after our dull hosting or cohosting adventure that we justhad over the past several weeks. Yeah, it was so I enjoyed it.I got some good unsolicited listener feedback, which is awesome. It just kindof switches it up. It's interesting. The podcast is, what, twoand a half years old or something, and it made sense. It wasfun. I enjoyed it and the thing that I really enjoy working withyou on things like the book, all the things we work on, butthings like the book and things like these podcast episodes that you invest so muchin them, just like you invest a lot into yourself. You're constantly lookingto learn and grow. Well, thanks, man. I enjoy the time withyou as well. Right back at you. Cool. So we're goingto talk a little bit about some of those episodes and some of those conversationsee what we remember about them. But we're going to start where we alwaysstart, which is customer experience. When I say customer experience, where wasthat mean to you? You know, I knew you were going to askus, of course, and I remember my answer from last time and Istill I gotta double down on that answer now. The exploration of a sharedbelief doesn't necessarily mean it's a good customer experience. I'm not commenting on thequality of the customer experience, but overall, that's that's what I feel it isfrom the moment that they see your website, you know, the experiencethat they have with your website or through a conversation with a friend. Itstarts that that experience of do they believe in the problem that you are solving? Do they believe that you're the one to solve it for them? Andwhen they talk to your people, when they look at your your APP,if you're selling an APP or if you're selling a service from you know,when they've been customers for five years, do they still hold that belief?Is it strong? So I'm still going to double down on on that.But you know, what I've learned over the past couple of years, though, is, and this is kind of embarrassing to say, but I didn'tunderstand the depth in which everything is customer experience. Every single action within acompany ultimately leads to the customer experience, from the policies that the that theleadership team makes, an HR makes, to you know, it could bethe vacation policy. Of vacation policy can affect the customer experience because you're affectingthe customer from, you know, any position, from the person working onyour website to the person crafting the messages... the product. It all goesback to that customer experience and honestly, a couple of years ago, likeI knew that was the case, but every day that passes it becomes moreand more clear that every single action all leads to the customer if you're doingit right. Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean what you obviously that themeof employee experience and employee engagement directly affecting customer experience like a necessary foundationalconsideration, even prior to thinking about moments that matter and touch points and howwe're going to improve things and where we're going to remove friction, all theother kind of mechanics of customer experience. Underneath all of it, to yourpoint, is, of course, employee experience and just hearing the way you'vetalked about that really push that even broader in deeper, and it's it's this, you know, it's just like what it's like to be with a healthyperson, right. So, you know we've had longtime friends or family membersor whatever and at some point in their life they weren't quite as healthy insome way, whether it be physical, psychological, emotional, whatever, andother points they're just doing great. And it's that same thing when people interactwith a company. If what's going on inside is aligned and healthy and good, it's going to feel different and it's going to leave a different impression andresonance than if it's unhealthy and a little bit broken or disjoint. Did oryou know, that sales rep doesn't feel supported by a manager and so they'rehaving like, you know, a bad week or a pad month, orthat the customer care team is, you know, do it incredibly well,like great response time and really good, important engagement and they're feeling like greatcamaraderie, like that's going to be a good spell for any of the touchpoints during that period it. So that's really interesting you have the manager isn'tgoing to care about the customer care employee, then the customer care employees is lesslikely to care about the customer. Absolutely. Yeah, it's funny.I'm reading right now two books and actually both of these folks. One ofthem we interviewed together and I'm am about to interview and we'll release shortly thisconversation with Dan Gingis. I just read. I'll be back from chef hiken,followed by the experience maker from Dan Gengis and ands. So just likeall these things, themes are super hot for me. So we will getinto those yet, but we will talk sheep a little bit later before wego forward. Steve, I'm going to because I don't know. I mean, I think people know at this point that that I am a bombomb teammember and that I'm hosting the show on behalf of bombomb. I think ourlogo might be on the little tile that's in spotify and apple podcast and allthe other spots. But I I've never addressed this myself and I don't thinkthat I asked you the first time on the show and I don't think thatI asked I think Jonathan Bolton, our chief customer officers been on the show. Darren Dawson, our cofounder and president, has been on the show, butI don't know that I've asked this question, so I'm going to askit of you for folks who are listening who may be curious to hear alittle bit more, for people who are familiar. Tell us a little bitabout bombomb. Who was our I guess I'll say it as ours. Whois our ideal customer and what problem or problems do we solve for them?Yeah, well, bomb is a company at its core, besides the youknow, the product that we sell like, I feel like the people at bombombwant sincerely to help people be the best their best selves. They theywant to get our customers in front of their customers more often, and so, obviously, you know, on a simplistic level, we sell a platformthat allows people to record themselves and get in front of their prospects, theircustomers, the people that matter most, in a video platform, and youknow that's that's primarily what the product is. Now we have some exciting things thatyou know, that we're working on for the future which may shift thatquite, you know, quite a bit,...

...but that's what we do right nowand and our primary customer is the company or the person. It couldbe a solo preneur that believes that their people are their best assets. Andif you believe you hired an amazing group of folks. But the technology that'sout there, the tools that we use to communicate with each other the mostover, through, you know, email or Linkedin Messenger or text messaging orsocial if you believe that that your people will be better if they were seeingand heard, that is our primary customer. That is who would benefit the most, because you hire your sales folks, you hire the people on your teambecause they connected with you. How can they connect with your customers orfuture customers if they're not seen and heard? If you only have a quick snippetof time on a on a zoom call or a or a meeting,you know, a Webinar type meeting where people can actually see you, ifyou're limited to that small amount of time you, are you really using yourpeople as well as as you could? And are they being them their bestsells as well? Yeah, I love it. You went to a sharedbelief with that one and we could get technically into like, you know,sales teams, you know, the different roles than a sales team or acustomer success team, leadership and management, all the different use cases across thecustomer life cycle, across the employee life cycle. There's so many things wecould do there. But I agree with you that it comes down to thatshared belief of am I better in person? Are My people better in person?Are My people my best asset? Will our prospects? Are Customers orother people feel seen and heard themselves if we reach out in a more personaland human way, and I think if you share some of that belief foryou're curious enough to pursue it, which is some of the language that youused in our first conversation on the show, then we have a really interesting andhelpful conversation for you and, by the way, an interesting and helpfulproduct and service and approach to training and developing your ability to appear on cameraand in to offer the right messages to the right people, when to sendvideo, when not to send video and all of that and a more simplisticanswer to your question. Maybe it went too far out there, but youknow, if if you have a product that's that's highly commoditized, if youare in an industry that's highly competitive. You know, that relies on relationship. If you have a healthy team culture, that's another you know element, likeall those things. If you add those things together, then our productsgoing to be perfect for you because it's going to help you stand out,it's going to help get your people in front of those people and do whatthey do best. Awesome. I want to get into the book and thepodcast series that we cohosted here on the customer experience podcast and talk about thosefolks. Before you do, I'll just add if you are listening to thisand you have tried video before, or your team has tried video before andyou felt like this doesn't work for us, we also have a really good conversationto have with you. Steve and I've been working together side by sidefor almost seven years now the company go to market, you know, theactual generating, retaining, expanding, serving, helping customers. We've been doing fora decade as a company and we have helped all kinds of folks who'vebeen through maybe one of those one of the products or services that doesn't comewith any guidance or training and therefore your kind of left your own that's anotherthing that we specialize in here. We know that you're better in person andand we want to help you do that. Anything to add that, Steve,no, I think I think you did a wonderful job. A yeah, I just feel I just feel like so many people like I tried that. I'm like, you are not thinking about this opportunity the right way.I think. I usually people aren't thinking broad enough. They're thinking of theparticular use case. They use it as a novelty or they think that just, you know, just the video is...

...going to help, and that's notthe that's not the answer. You can put a video out there and ifyou have a crappy message, you're still going to have a crappy result.You need to have a sound message. Is What we talked about a lotin the book and Human Center Communication. It comes down to having sound messaging, sound communication. It comes down to putting the needs, once an interest, of your recipient on equal level playing field as your own and then deliveringit in the best possible medium to make that connection. And when you addall of those things together, then you'll have an unstoppable sales force, anunstoppable team that's connecting digitally, which is hard to do. Really good.I'm glad I gave it back to you because you did a really nice jobteeing up human centered communication now for folks are listening. Steve and I again, we CO author. We humanize your business together a couple of years agoand since that time a it's been a pleasure to have people reach out whoare getting value from that message and, like bill rich, truly building asense of community simply by virtue of putting these ideas into a tangible format thatreaches beyond whatever our digital reaches. There's something interesting about working in the analogformat. I know you and I both read a lot of books. Wehave kind of a biased or that anyway, but you know, we've playfully goneback and forth on Hey, I got an idea for another book,and you know, sometimes there were reactuals like too soon, too soon,but when you have the you had the idea for this one. Before weget into the people who we invited into this conversation to bring these ideas tolife and to provide a lot of teaching and perspectives far beyond our own,to the degree you can go back to the initial spark, like what wasyour motivation to say I got an idea and I want to talk to Ethanabout this. Oh God, I think you actually already mentioned it, becausethe knowledge and the insight that we do not have was the spark for forthis idea. It's like we've been doing this for a long, long time, and bombomb's been in business since two thousand and six. You've been withthe company since two thousand and eleven, right, two thousand and eleven,Yep, and I've been a customer since two thousand and twelve, or twothousand and eleven to two thousand and fifteen, and then with the bombomb team.And even knowing that we've been doing this for such a long time,I'm still acutely aware that that I don't have all the answers and you don'thave all of the answers. And just thinking about the smart people. Reallyit was thinking about your podcast, your pot I don't know if we evertalked about this, but as I thought about you and all the smart peoplethat you interview on your podcast and all the things that I learned through theyears listening to you working out in the morning and listening to the people onyour podcast, I'm like, this is awesome, and that whole podcast ofinterviewing someone else, the whole concept week in and week out. Like whywouldn't that work in a book? Like why do we expect one author ortwo authors to have all of the answers? And that's what really got me justthinking about bringing in the smartest people that we know. And then that'swhat I love about the book. In the finished and the final product,there are so many diverse perspectives and points of view and we'll get into itas we start talking about the the individuals that we simply do not possess,but they do, and it came into one cohesive story that I'm just I'mso proud of. I mean, you do amazing work, you know.Obviously Ethan is the one that actually sits down after we get together and andwe do the interviews and we talked about the structure. Ethan sits down andputs words to paper and he just has an amazing, amazing ability to takeall these different perspectives and thoughts and turn it into something that's magic. Andyou know, not to disparage rehumanize your business in any way, but thisbook it stomps it. Wow. Okay,...

...first, thank you, that's reallykind. Second, super provocative. We could spend ten minutes just feelingthat apart. But I'll go out and assume that most listeners have not readthat book. So probably wouldn't entertain them or be of as much uses asmuch as it would be fun for you and me to do, which somaybe we'll do it offline. But yeah, I do absolutely in. And justgoing back to that theme that you offered off the top, you know, the reason we invited these people in was shared belief these people. Notall of them send video messages, but most of them do. Of course, everyone is on video calls and virtual presentations and everyone sends email and linkedinmessages and all these other things that we need to do. A lot ofunique experiences in perspectives, a lot of sales professional never mind, we'll justget into it. We'll just get into it. So we'll do this kindof is a little bit of a speed round because we have eleven experts thatwe brought in. I'm going to mention them, by the way, inorder of their appearance here on the customer experience podcast. So chapters three throughthirteen feature all of the research that Steve and I didn't advance the customized interviewsthat we put together for them, while keeping a solid core that was aroundthe shared beliefs of human centricity, customer Centricity, helping rather than selling,leading with service and value, seeking to generate recurring impact and knowing that recurringrevenue is a consequence of that. Just a lot of these common themes areall shared by by the folks that were going to mention. So the firstone up was episode one hundred and forty eight with Dan Tire. Dan Tireis the sixth employee and first salesperson at hub spot. Highly energetic, uniquepersonality, amazing expert also in Entrepreneuri started several companies before joining hub spot.Steve, whether it's related to our interview for the book or the interview forthe PODCAST, where a couple thoughts or things that you're excited about regarding DanDan tire, it's just the first thought that comes to mind in general whenI think a Dan tire is good. People win. He's obviously succeeded inlife. You know, he probably doesn't have to work anymore. Let's let'sbe honest. Being the six member of Hums, he succeeded my standards forretirement. Yeah, yeah, and so he's just a good person and he'swinning and he likes to share that knowledge and information. You know, thebiggest lesson from from him, and maybe I'll stick to the book, I'mgoing to stick to all of our the book content and book interviews that thatwe did, and the biggest lesson in his chapter, I think, ispeople connect with you and not your products, and that's what he's so good at. He does break it down and give you some tactical advice, youknow as well, but really what we learn from his chapter is how asalesperson specifically. So if you're a salesperson, this is definitely a chapter, youknow, for you and how you can connect emotionally, which Dan HillContin and you'd that conversation, you know, with with your prospects and just,you know, helping, not selling, which was a common theme throughout thebook. Absolutely fun thing about that one too, is he named droppeda few of his hub spot team members. I had already connected with one ofthem before, but I reached out to all three and got some additionalinsights and interviews and perspectives with them, which is something I don't think wedid in any other chapter. Next up is Lauren Bailey, founder and presidentof both factory and Girls Club. Bombomb is a huge fan and participant inGirls Club, which is changing the face of sales leadership by empowering women toachieve seats of leadership inside sales organization. Steve, what are a couple thoughtsyou have about Lauren Bailey? Transformation is a single word that comes to mind. She talks about that through throughout. She talks about belief and belief inherself and share stories on how she was bullied to turn on the camera andthen pick that up and ran with it.

And, as you mentioned, withGirls Club, you know her. Her main goal is to show peoplewho and what they can be and help them achieve themselves. So, again, going back to helping, she is a helper. She wants to seepeople thrive and she talks about those stories and her chapter and and how youcan believe in yourself and how you can do better, even if you don'tin the beginning love it. She also hammers some of the significant fundamental flawsin the way a lot of organizations are going to market right now. SoI'll just I'll leave it at that. Third Matt Sweezy, or Matthew Sweezy, director of market strategy at sales force, and while we were engaged with himhe also took on the role of partner at the sales force futures lab. Really Interesting Guy. I know we both loved his book the Context MarketingRevolution, which we talked about in a I think it was episode sixty onthis podcast, but that's off the top of my head. I might beoff on that number. Share a couple thoughts about matthew. Yeah, obviously, as you mentioned, love his book and it all comes down to motivation. Motivation on why you're doing the things that you're doing and how you thinkabout the prospect. He had a line in there and I'm going to I'mgoing to butcher this, but it is something like if profit is your isyour motive, then you're going to develop a mechanical process. And obviously thebook is all about human centered connection and how to do it in a morehuman centered way with better results. And that's the key. It's not justdoing it in a different way and achieving the same results or worse results.We can do business and his chapter dives deep into doing business a better way, that's more human, that's going to be more fulfilling and achieve those results, and of course he talks about that a lot in his book to withthe with the five part framework, yeah, which we Summari. He was kindenough to to allow us to summarize in this one and it really isa nice content teas to his book, which Steve and I would both recommendto anyone that listens to this podcast and enjoys it. You definitely want topick up the context marketing revolution. Next, Morgan Jay Ingram. I'll get it. So. So Morgan is a very dynamic person. He's also avideo prospecting pioneer, so there's a lot in there about video prospecting. He'sa not only a salesperson, sales trainer, but also execute sales. I thinkhis titles director of sales execution and evolution at JB sales with John Barrows. So he is preaching what he's practicing as well, which allows him tostay sharp. And the reason he reminds me of you, Steve, likesomething you both share is that I look at you both and I just thinkhow naturally and seamlessly personal and Professional Development and growth is just part of howyou do things. To share word about Morgan. Yeah, authentic, Ithink would be the word. And brave and and all the people that arein the book are brave. You know, you look at these people and they'veachieved what they achieved and you just think that they've always been that way. But there's always a story of struggle for them to get there. Andand Morgan talked a lot about it in the book. Of like, he'snot. He wasn't the best Bedr, but he was going to put itout there, he was going to talk about it on Linkedin, he wasgoing to create video content, knowing and and inviting people to go along andhis journey and he wasn't claiming to know it all or be the best.And so it's a really interesting intro to his chapter just just talking about that. But then, and this is what I love about the book, italso gets tactical. You know, if there, if yeah, if youwant to learn a framework for being more committed, because you know, thisis what you mentioned. Like he makes commitments and he sticks to it andthen he has frameworks for executing, you know, on not just on hiscommitments, but actually is daytoday work. So if you are a Bedr,if you lead a team of BEDR's, or if you lead a team ofsales reps, mortgage chapter is going to... really actionable for you. Awesome. Dan Hill, emotional intelligence expurg author of multiple books. I enjoy listeningto his podcast called Dan Hills eq spotlight, and he also holds seven US patentsin the analysis of facial coding. Day to here he ties together emotions, memory and motivation. What are a couple thoughts about Dan Hill? I'mafraid, Dan Hill. I'm afraid because remember when we were interviewing him,he's like I can read people's faces and let you know the type of personthat you are. He's like and I'm not going to do that. Don'tworry, I'm not going to do it because I would lose friends if Idid it. But now every time like I have an interview with Dan Hill, because he goes through all of the emotion and you mentioned emotion, memoryand and motivation. Here's the funny thing. Dan Hill is not a salesperson,but for the salesperson or the sales leader reading this book, his chapteris definitely one of the top three chapters to read and he has nothing todo with sales, because it's all about emotion, which emotion drives action,and if you want to get people to drive to action and do the thingsyou want them to do, this is a this chapter is amazing. Itreally is, when we put it really close to the front, because itjust is so foundational to so many. The rest of the teachings. MarioMartinez Junior, founder modern sales, evangelist and CEO at Van Gresso what comesto mind me think about Mario's this chapter when a different route than what Ithought, where I thought it was going to go, for sure, andwe talked a lot about hiring and hiring the right people and culture and beinga video first company, not for selling folks, but for the company itself, because he's this first all on he's this first all over the world andhe's been doing this for years and years and years. So we dug deepinto using video to build relationships between the people and the company, how hehires, the process that he uses when he hires folks, which is throughvideo, making sure that people have those skill sets. So this, thischapter was fascinating. If you lead a company or if you're a manager withinthe company, you're starting to work more remote, that this is the chapterthat you want to read. Yeah, and to go back to the excxconnection that we were talking about near the top of the show here, MatthewSweezy's chapter and Mario Martinez Juniors chapter both have a lot of employee experience,employee engagement kind of implications to it. Julie Hanson, professional actor, professionalsalesperson, turn professional sales manager who now teaches people to use classic acting techniquesand Improv techniques to be more effective sales professionals. WHAT COMES TO MIND WITHJULIE? Yeah, and you're going to know the answer to this one,but because we talked about it, when we decided we want we wanted Julieto participate in the book and Ethan I didn't necessary believe that acting had,you know, had a roll in video, video communication, and we had conversationsabout it and you know, as we began consuming Julie's content, werelike, wait a second, see though she might have something here. Andso that's the most fascinating and there is a bunch of things that they're goingto learn from Julie's chapter, but the most fascinating element is how you canbring your authentic self to a role that you are playing, because at theend of the day it's still is you and the actions that you can doto be your best self through video and have that shine through, because videomute some things, and we talked about the strategies to kind of turn itup a notch, which we also did with Vivica, which we did withVivica as well. She calls herself Superviv when she wants to raise it upfor for video content. Yeah, really good. So this next gentleman,not only has he been on the podcast twice now, not only is hea customer service and customer experience expert who's been at it for decades, notonly is he a New York Times in Wall Street Journal best selling author ofmultiple books, like nine books or something like that, he's just a supernice dude. And last thing in the... We mentioned that to Pete. Like for folks who listen to the show, you know that I'm goingto ask Steve here shortly to think or mentioned someone who's had a positive impacton his life or career. This person whose name I'm about to mention hadbeen mentioned twice when we were writing the book, but in that time hewas actually mentioned a third time. And Gosh, if if you think abouta legacy for your professional work, the idea that someone would mention you withthe opportunity to just mention anyone that's had a pot of positive impact on theirlife or career, like, my Gosh, what wonderful legacy this due to chefhiken, amazing person, Great Guy, really smart at what he does.What comes to mind when I say chef Hiken to you, Steve,this efter is amazing. It didn't go the way that I thought it wasgoing to go either, which was a nice, pleasant surprise, because thisone was very tactical and I didn't think this was going to be tactical,you know, at all. One of my favorite parts of the chapter ishim talking about his methodology when he closes down, or not closes down,but has conversations with his customers and he goes through this fourpart framework of danger, Opportunity, utis, strength and future, and he breaks that down and like, he shows you how and he uses it for his own sales process. But anyone reading the book or is going to be able to use thatsame framework for their own sales process as well, which will help people connectagain on a more human level and it's a human centered way to generate morebusiness. So very tactical, which was a surprise. Yeah, so smart, because the questions that he offers in that chapter and that he uses himselfreally draw out interesting and helpful information. He said sometimes the questions are soprovocative the customer needs to think about it and get back to him. Sojust even the question process itself is of value to the other person and hetakes everything he learns and gives them their own thoughts and feelings and ideas backand at some basic level he's simply making sure that he understands them correctly inorder to proceed in a way that's going to help them. For folks whoare looking to do better virtual presentations and better sales presentations, loads of practicalstuff in ships chapter too. Next up jacko Vander Koy, founder of winningby design, a sales engineer, a sales architect, and you know,we talk a lot in the book about art versus science and how to balancethose two, because we need a balance of the two. He seems tobe a very scientific sales expert at the same time. He is one ofthe most thoughtful, warm and sincere people I've interacted with in this type ofsetting. So, Steve, when I say Jacko Vander Koi, what comesto mind? I'm a fan, fan of jacos. The first thing thatcomes to mind those is trawler fishing. Laugh and so good. Definitely abig, big part of the book which gets into counter impact and you know, he talks about trawler fishing and the impact that that has on the environmentand he equates that to today's modern sales, or maybe not so modern sales,processes and how we're doing damage to to our ecosystem, of our totaladdressable market in our ICP. And it's such a thought provoking chapter. Ilove that it's early in the book because it just sets up, it setsup everything for the rest of the book. Yeah, for folks listening, Jackois featured in chapter three, which is right on the heels of theopening chapter, which is about digital pollution. Second Chapter is human centered communication,which in many ways is an antidote to all of the digital pollution thatpervades our virtual, online and digital spaces that we all operate in every singleday. And that the fact that he tied environmental pollution to digital pollution.was just it just was just another reminder...

...that we invited the right people tointo this conversation because it was completely unprompted. So vivicavon rose and already mentioned Vica. She's a cofounder with Mario at Vangresso. She is a master trainer. She's a teacher a lot like Chephiken. That's why their chapters kind of areadjacent to one another. And any thoughts you have on Vivica? Yeah, the thing that stands out the most are seven lessons to better videos.That's what I remember most from our conversation and the chapter itself, just thesteps that she that she gives to people to take. It's very actionable.People can walk away and and and remember the seven lessons and create better videoseasily. Awesome. The one thing that popped out to me right away asI was going back through it after we you know, so we'd prep theseinterviews, we'd watched their youtube videos, we'd listen to their podcast, we'veread their books, read their blogs and then enter these interviews with them andsome of them were as long as two hours at some were even over twohours. And so then we, you know, go back and watch therecording along with reading the transcript kind of in parallel, and the thing thatjust jumped off the transcript to me was her story of the seventy, seventypercent, seventy percent bonds rate to hold out reach with video, because oneof the classes she teaches is that they're selling on video class at Van Gresso. And so yeah, you know, we really got pressed in a littlebit too. Okay, what was this person sending? How did that go? What was she like before? was just amazing video. So we getinto that, that process of generating that amazing response rate from C sweet executives, from an insurance salesperson. Last one here Adam contos. We've both knownhim for a long time. He is the CEO of Remax, the mostrecognized brand in real estate. Steve, thoughts on Adam? I'm gonna soundlike a broken record because this was another chapter that did not go the waythat I thought it was going to go. Initially, in love the way thatit turned out. You Know Adam, Adam is, he's a grinder,he's a CEO, and you think that like, oh, he's goingto be in this this high castle and and not doing the the daytoday dirtywork, and that's the exact opposite. Like he gets in it and hetalks about building relationships and rapport with his team and how he does it,you know, through video, how he builds his own brand. If youare interested in branding, this is the chapter for you, because he goesin depth on how he makes connections with the people that Mattel matter the mostof his business, which are his agents, and he does it so darn welland he explores on his own and he doesn't wait for people to dothings for him and he just tackles it head on and he talks about histhoughts around that and his mentality, you know, around us going yeah,really good, and the importance of getting your own voice out there and beingavailable to people. So he talks about his process for podcasting, he talksabout the process for recording videos, which I think he said was like ina glorified closet in his basement and he set it up himself. You know, it's just awesome. I agree with you. It's like I didn't II knew he did all that stuff, I just wasn't quite sure what theprocess was. And it was fun to be invited to it. Before wewind down, a couple thoughts on like you and I both read a lotof books. What are a couple things that you really enjoy about a goodbook experience, like when an author or a publisher does something well? Whatare some things that you enjoy about a book process and perhaps did any ofthose influence the way we went about this? Yeah, for sure. I'm nota big fiction I was going to backwards. I'm a big fiction fanand so you know, I don't like it when books are all high levelwith no actionable items, no takeaways or no interactive moments like that. Youdon't have to have interactive moments in your book, as long as they're youknow, there are steps that you can take to actually execute on the thingsthat that you're learning and you know,...

...actually have some books here that arethat are great examples of that, like the road less stupid with written byKeith Cunningham, or visual collaboration, like both of these books they talk abouton a high level and then they give you a step by step approach forimproving your business or improving the way that you communicate, and that's how Iwanted to do human center communication, and we talked about that as well.You know, we want to talk about the the high level and what itmeans to be human centered, but what are the actual steps that you needto take, because we didn't want people to read through the entire book andbe like that's nice, I should do that, without having the path,without having a road map, without having the next steps to take and knowingwhat results they're going to achieve. And so that was a big focus andit was hard to do and I applaud you, you know, for youtaking again all you know, all of these different thoughts from eleven different people, and putting it together into a coherent sequels that people could action upon.Yeah, I mean it was thank you for that. It was. Itwas a gift from all of the people. I mean we had to develop thetheoretical framework to wrap around it, and I in because, you know, rather than likewise on the far other end, it's just a collection oftactics without context or meaning or purpose or like, why does any of thiseven matter? So we had to tea up that whole theoretical framework, whichwe do in the beginning. We go through all of these people, theirperspectives, their teachings, their lessons and then at the end we do afew things. We round up all the strategies and philosophies and we have thesepeople, in their chapters and their ideas, talk to each other. There's primarilyagreement, although I won't spoil anything for anyone that wants to look atit and get into it. But, for example, not everyone agreed onhow to use virtual backgrounds or whether these virtual backgrounds on zoom calls and andand those types of things. So there's a little bit of disagreement. They'rea lot of commonality. These a lot of themes, so we unpack thoseand then specifically top tips and tactics we break down in Chapter Fifteen and thenobviously look to the future with Chapter Sixteen, which is intermittently exciting and scary atthe same time. Something Fun that we did. We we wanted tobring this to life. I think you inspired this direction in this decision.But for folks who pre order the book and if you're listening to it lateand this is interesting to you, still visit book at Bombombcom take a lookat it. You know, we can find some ways to continue bringing thisbook to life for people, but while we're still in this preorder window herein early October. You know, we created events and opportunities to interact directlywith these people who, by the way, thank you again to all of them, and I'll name them before we wrap up. But not only didthey give us hours of their time in advance of and during the initial interview, hours of their time reviewing the material and giving us feedback and sometimes doingsubsequent like follow up interviewsque exchange is to really dial in things. For example, you mentioned Lauren Bailey and getting bullied to turn her camera on early inher career. You know, we went back and Astra like Hey, Iknow you mentioned that you kind of bully people to get their cameras on,and she uses that word playfully, by the way. What are some ofthe things that you say? So we included a list of like five orsix things you could say in order to encourage someone to turn their camera on. So not only did they do all that time, they also spent timeguessing with us on this podcast, but they're also giving us time to gueston live interactive round tables where people who have pre ordered the book it toask these professionals questions directly and interact and engage. It's like creative brainstorming withthe people on the call. We're doing a book club series where we'll readit and to many of these people and the week that we're talking about theirchapter are going to be live with us. Talk a little bit about how importantit is to wrap this with more than just and by the way,we do have worksheets and chapter summaries that... could have to but I thinkthat's where so many like bonus things stop, is like here's some additional worksheets andsummaries. Yeah, I'll give you a short and sweet answer to thisone. I don't know how you write a book called Human Centered Communication andyou don't do your best to create a human centered experience or an interactive experiencearound the book. So we did sit there and think about it's not aWebinar. It's going to be around table so people can actually ask questions tothe people in the book and not just make it a one way communication stream. So like little things like that and how we approached, you know,all the packages and and the offerings that we have around the book awesome.So those are all at Bombmcom book. The full addresses bombbcom book, humancentered offer or offers, but you get it. We're going to Bombcom podcast, which is what I want to do. This normally where I share other episodesthat folks might enjoy. Obviously, episode six with you, Steve More, we talked about exploring a shared belief as the foundation for getting in relationshipwith a supplier from the buyer side or with a with a buyer from thefrom the salesperson, company, supply or side of the relationship. But hereI'm just going to point you back to episode forty eight with Dan Tire.That one was called video messaging, and the next normal. That episode,episode one hundred and forty eight, kicked off this series that Steve Co hostedwith me. We did complimentary rather than redundant interviews. To our first interview, we learned a whole lot more and got to know all these people alot better. They are all smart, kind, generous, accomplished people.Again, one hundred and forty eight with Dan Tire, and you can alsolisten to Lauren Bailey, Matthew Sweezy, Morgan, J Ingram, Dan Hill, PhD, which we didn't mention last time, Mario Martinez Jr Julie Hansen, chef hike in, Jacko Vander Koi, Vivica von Rosen and Adam contos,and those are all up at Bombobcom, slash podcast or an apple podcast,spotify, wherever you prefer to listen. Steve, before I let you go, would you please think or mentioned someone who's had a positive impact onyour life or your career and give a nod or a shout out to acompany or brand that you personally appreciate for the experience they deliver for you asa customer? I'll start off with the company or brand first and I'll gowith ancestral supplements. As a company, they provide an amazing experience. Brianthere, their founder, will personally email you ask you about you know,it's a supplement company. It's not really supplements, it's food. It's theirorgans, their cattle organs, not, not, not human organs. GraspbandNew Zealand cattle organ yeah, Grasped News New Zealand organs and you know,like I was going to get into hell stuff. I'm not going to dothat. So nowhere out of time. But they have awesome products with amazingreviews online, and the reason why is because Brian reaches out and ask youabout any ailments or what are you trying to solve, and he cares,because then, like a month later, you'll get more emails from him andthey're not pre written. The emails there. The email I got from Brian waslike hey, it's been a month since you've been on the supplements.How how are you and your wife Gretchen doing? It's like, Oh myGod, like he's reaching out personally. There's just an amazing experience. Therewas another product that that he had which hadn't tried yet and he just sentit to me for free because he thought it would help. Like that's stuffjust doesn't happen anymore. So ancestral supplements, if you're if you have any ailments, you're looking to get good nutrition. People been eating organs for millions ofyears, depending on how long you believe that humans have been on thisearth, except for the last like eighty years, and so taking something outthat's been a part of our diet for forever as probably no Bueno, andthis is an easy and less disgusting way to bring them back in. Wellsaid. Yeah, and and what I...

...mean this is something that couldn't quitebe done this way years ago. I mean, he's doing business internationally,but he's doing business personally, but he's doing business at scale, and sohe's obviously got beautifully set up systems, clean data, well organized, goodreminders. I'm sure he has some system remind him that it's time to reachout to Steve, to ask Steve About this tail mentor situation and his wifeGretchen and what she was trying to achieve. And you know, serves up whatproducts were ordered and and you know it doesn't it's not genius, butto execute it really well is truly exceptional. Good call. How about a person? Yeah, person, is you? Even you? The past was abeen six years now, so he's seven and seven in January. Yeah, seven in January. It's crazy and we've known each other for a decade. It's it's gone by so fast, but working with you, learning fromyou, seeing your approach to everything that you do in life has made mebetter. So thank you. That's really kind. Likewise, it's been ashared journey of growth exploration. I love that we're able to do something likewell, the cohosting the podcast, but then also the book itself and it'sit's a joy to be able to do it and I appreciate you to.That's really kind. If people enjoy this conversation, of course they can goto Bombbcom podcast, they can go back to episode six, they can gocheck out bombombcom book, they can go to Bombombcom to learn more about thevideo messaging platform that you described in the beginning. But if they want toconnect with you, where Linkedin is at the best place. Yeah, StevePassonelli on twitter, linkedin. I'm Steven, though, thought that through and that'sste Ph and pass an ally, PAC and Eli. Awesome. Course. Will link all that up at Bombcom podcast, where we do video highlights, short write ups, and we have the audio player embedded there. Youcan search it by text. You use type words and it'll jump to thatpoint. So if Steve mentioned something here and you're like, I don't wantto go listen to the whole episode again, I just want to hear him talkabout that one thing again, you can go to bombbcom slash podcast.In that player, just type in a couple words that come to mind andit will jump you straight to that point. It's really awesome. So, Steve, thank you. So much. It's been a pleasure and I hopefolks enjoy it. And if you were listening to this, hit up Steve, Steven Passinelli, on Linkedin. You can also hit me up there.Ethan Beau. Would love to answer any questions you have about human centered communicationand how might it might be a benefit to you, your team, yourcompany, etc. Thanks so much for listening and thank you, Steve,for spending this time with me. Yeah, thanks for having me on and I'llsee you in our meeting in twenty minutes. Sounds good. The digitalspaces and channels we rely on every single day are noisier and more polluted thanever. So how can you break through, gain attention, build trust, createengagement and improve our relationships, reputation and revenue? The authors of theBest Selling Book Rehumanize Your Business Take that question on in their new book humanscentered communication, a business case against digital pollution. To help, they broughtin nearly a dozen experts in sales, marketing, customer experience, emotional intelligence, leadership and beyond. Learn more about human centered communication and see special preorderbonus packages by visiting bombombcom. Book. Improve your revenue and reputation immediately.And in the long term. Visit Bombombcom book thanks for listening to the customerexperience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is tocreate and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategiesand tactics by subscribing right now in your...

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