The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 158 · 1 month ago

158. Creating Customer Impact in Moments That Matter w/ Jacco van der Kooi

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Merely getting to the sale and figuring out later how to deliver what you sold does not work in a recurring revenue business. Actually, it’s customer success that makes the money now, because they create the experiences for customers around moments that matter.

Which moments matter most?

In this episode of our Human-Centered Connection expert series, Steve Pacinelli and I interview Jacco van der Kooij, Founder of Winning by Design, about building a customer impact journey around moments that matter.

Join us as we discuss:

Why sales knowledge comes with great responsibility

How recurring revenue models shift customer experience to customer success

What the Bow Tie Funnel is and how it affects customer impact

What the customer impact journey and counter impacts are

How priority has replaced other buying determinants

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Or if you make those moments count themost and those moment is where you designed a good customer experiencearound. Then, if you design a few of those with rising tides, all both lift the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host, beefen Beaute, hey thanks for clicking play on this episode ofthe customer experience podcast. If you haven't been joining us this summer,you've been missing an amazing series, we're doing but we're in the middle ofit right now, and the series is about a couple key things. First, I'm joined bya CO host my longtime friend team member CO, author of a couple of books,Steve Pasinelli, the most recent one that's coming out this October, we canpreorder today at Bombombay is called Human Center Communication, and in thatbook we interviewed eleven of our expert friends with eleven chaptersfeaturing them, and what we're doing here on this series is bringing themback for a unique conversation, unique and complementary to what we talk aboutin the book Steve Who is with us today. That's another good one. Ethan. Todaywe have the founder winning by design, affirm that designs builds and scalesorganizations. They actually helped design, build and scale ourorganization. Here at Bombum we have Jacko van der Coy he's from a smalltown in the Netherlands. He has a farming background and what's coolabout that as he brings his morals and his values from farming and if youenjoy helping people, if you enjoy being true to your word, if you enjoykeeping an upstanding reputation and your business interactions will make inmore revenue, then you're going to love this episode today with Jacko Jacko.Welcome to the show, Oh, my gosh, I have only one thing to say to that: let's bring it on so did I catch you of your attentionspan is is good. This is perfect. Yes, and if you, if you are not watching thewinning by design Youtube Channel, you need to check it out. Jack O bring somuch awesome, energy and information. He is his own DJ. He djs, really hisown party, sometimes but you're always invited at the winning by designYoutube Channel. It's awesome and we've learned a ton from it. Jaco firstquestion for you and it's the same one. We ask everybody when I say customerexperience. What does that mean to you a Isick that one is tricky sauce? Okay,so customer experience? I would like you to think of it as if you are beinga person living in having a disease that you may not know about that. Youdon't are aware of that, could potentially be terminal and visiting adoctor. When you talk to sill professional, I want you to have thefeeling that a patient with that kind of s, symptoms and situation would feellike when they talked to a doctor. The person on the other side in a doctorhas more knowledge. The person in the side of a sales marketing customersuccess relationship is the person that you are where, as marketing seals, acustomer says, you have older knowledge, you have all the inside, you have ahundreds, thousands, whatever of customers, and so, if that knowledgecomes great responsibility, and if you choose to use that to abuse somebodyinto the wrong kind of discount or this or that that would make me feel verydisappointed if you would be a certified sales winning by design wrapthat that still exhibits. That behavior. In your view- and I think I know whatthe answer is just based on what I know of you- but I'm going to ask anyway,just to walk it out a little bit in...

...your opinion, obviously you're payingattention to the space a lot. A lot of people are talking about. Customerexperience a lot more there even assigning roles. Titles may be eventeams that have customer experience. Labels on them in your view, or youropinion or experience, is customer experience better as a role team titleor is it better, is kind of a broader culture or ethos within theorganization that informs everyone's work? Okay, so the fundamental reasonwhy that question you know like a yeah, the thing behind is: I want to avoidusing those expensive words as I'm, sometimes in caught it. Okay, look. Wehave for decades used the fall, probably for over a hundred years, orsomething like that use the funnel as a reflection of the way of how we look,business, look at business, and so in that is now ingrained today. A culturethat looks at the bottom of that funnel is the outcome of success, and what weand you see is a maniacal focus or winning more deals. This maniacal focussome people say they're not or some deal like. They said that you likethey're, trying to avoid it in the end, if you are growing your business andyour first instinct is to hire more people than you essentially have aderived of that the funnel says twice as much at the top goes twice as muchof the bottom and now for. If I want twice as much of the bottom, I'm goingto need more people, Blah Blah Blah, and so you have that focus in thatfunnel. There is no point in that funnel. That reflects what happensafter the sill and as a result, because it's so absent from our vocabulary andnone of our form of visualizations what happens after we determine all hiscustomer success. It's as if, like look once you sell the customer, then welater on will figure out how we get you to deliver. What you actually bought.That historically worked very well in a want of business. That does not work in a recurringrevenue business, because if you sold them the thing you're not going todeliver that. That is going to churn and if it's going to churn beforeyou're making a profit which is across the four forty most successful SASScompany stakes on average twenty one months, it is likely that I will turnat least after a few months. Not after a year, you are going to make a loss,in other words the more deals you win, the more money you lose so now. What is customer success is themantra is the thing, the problem, what we name it is set to a firm that mindset off and what we like to see and the Alice. What we have recently wroteabout is like what do we think of that function as a profit center? If wethink of it, like that's, actually the cash register, then we start thinkingabout the business differently historically, and you know like forthose of you who have an opportunity to look it up on Youtube. I create it andnot to laugh about, but I created an a presentation that says the art ofmaking love and in the presentation, I'm trying to explain that.Historically, what we did is we made sure that sales won the money and thencustomer success make make the customers love us. What if that, hasflipped what if it is the role of sales to day to make customers love us,because we can help with the impact, but it's actually customer success whomakes the money now. This is what I call sales is the art of making love.How can you get your customers? You know to love you, and obviously, thatputs it a customer success in a total different perspective, so in the end,but we call it what we name it. What the experience is customer success is aprofit center mathematically. That is what it is, and so, whatever we call it,I leave that up to the powers to be, and the companies out there that aresetting the stage for that. This is the perfect opportunity to get into whatJacka was referring to and it's the bow tie funnel and the customer ImpactJourney, and we talked about this in our last interview for for a little bit.But what we didn't really get into is what we need to do or how we need tothink about that customer impact...

...journey. How does a company, a smallcompany, a new company or even an established company, decide where theimpact is along, the bow tie funnel and where, where they can help their futurecustomers and their current customers the most is there a process to that?There's a process, but, let's not eye like. Let's not forget me Al, like thesimple, your often the process, a process is great to automate, somethingthat you know how it works right. They say. Oh, I know how prove the works now,let let's prosise is as lover the cost. That's Christ, efficiency and stuff.Like that, you question Steve is, however, the absolute right question:How do we yeah? How do a small simple business implement is- and this is aconstable- we call moments that matter and you know like it comes from thatwhen you run a business, there's a few moments that really really matter to acustomer. I give an example is an emotional example, but I trust that theaudience can can deal with me as I'm often an emotional person reasonablyyeah like a few years ago, two years ago, actually, two and a half years ago,my mom passed away and I needed a flight. Now I go to Delta and Delta sesand I said like what the conditions were of my flight and it got absolute,no problem. We have a grievance policy here, right and so breathen flight. Ithink it's called this allows you to not have to pay a premium prices on aflight that you need to take this afternoon. Perfect right, you getpremium seating, it was yeahlin get through this on the way. That was amoment that mattered, like Delta, gave me an incredible moment at kind ofmatter. United has on the past same thing, but these are like yeah. Youknow my bro As my brother when at that time passed away, but they did the samething like these are like very emotional moments. That's the momentthat matters in your business. In most situations there are always momentsthat matter. If you are able to find those moments where your customerengages with you personally, the return of a product, for example, is that oneor the loss of a password on a Saturday night when you're, trying to log intoyour apple Blah Blah Blah Blah right. All that is like, if you make thosemoments, count the most and those moment is where you designed a goodcustomer experience around. Then, if you design a few of those with risingtides or both lift, if you design a few of those, then the rest will fill startto fill in your people will start to fill in the gaps and say: okay, let'sdo the same thing in another moment as well: Yeah Yeah, I mean how are you soI love it. It may it makes perfect sense we've. Actually, it's been kindof a background theme through several episodes on this shows identifyingthose moments that matter, because when you can do those right, it buys yougrace and patience through other kind of small failures that don't quitematter as much to the customer. How do you or your team advise people? Youknow when you identify these moments, I think so often we come at them thinkingabout ourselves and what we think matters. How do you encourage people tostay focused on the customer in identifying anddesigning around these moments and then, perhaps even in measuring some level ofsuccess like yes, we have that moment kind of squared away we're doing a goodjob here, let's start doing some more, but first of all that moment takesplace all across the journey right and in the journey. We and you know when Isaid earlier- we're looking at it not from from a follow but from a bow dipperspective, which is a filtered, follow, flipped and so on. A fulljourney for customer journey. Second, is we look at it from an operatingmodel? Explain what operating all the way so that when I in a second talkabout how to do that moment that it puts put in on context historicallywhen- and I asked Steven and is in the question first, if, if I think of thetop of the funnel, who is responsible for the top of the Fumel Mark Marketing,and if I think of the bottom of the Fanal, you know who's response, for heboompoel sales sales. Not what. If and as you know, in your own organizations,you have you've done this yourself, one of actually this not just marketing atthe top of the funnel, and this now just sails at the bottom. What if theyare into twight? What of all these...

...roles are constantly involved? It justlike a different, very you know: variants of participation or atdifferent stages or a different actions. No, but I could easily convince youwith or what I could convince the the listener to this podcast iser on isthat hey marketing stills are actually into twine, so I need as much saleshelp to tell marketing what to market, as I need marketing help to help sale,provide sales provide with marketing materials use cases, and what not, sothis would be very easy. Now I ask customer success to that journey and Isay like hey what, if customer success is not something that takes place aftersales has committed game commitment from a client and not as I use the wordcommitment than not close after mutual commitment has been achieved. How cancustomer success and help marketing and be intertwined with sales? This is oneof those examples that you point out letting to have the customer come backto us and share with us how they experienced. It is important. It tooktoo long. It was too too far, and so on so forth a deal too many clicks a youknow. The only reason why I stuck with you, because your sales person had sucha great attitude, but I have to tell you response rate- was extremely low,so apparently exes response rate is very important, then, by the way. Well,we can point out today there are two things that customers are extremelyresponsive to responsiveness and time and kindness. These two things areresponsio. So if I submit a trial- and I got to wait a day for an email to besent to me to sign up for trial, nobody wants that. If I hit trial, I want tocheck my inbox twice, hit, refresh refresh and and better be there rightlike otherwise. I have a bad experience, I'm very sensitive to time, natureright now for those you who think you ll like walls, not that fast folks, Idon't know about you, but why not order something before nine o'clock at Amazonand if it doesn't deliver by three o'clock at night. I go like what'swrong with this company like what do you mean you can't ship that that Nichproduct to me even a few hours right? That's how sensitive the time we havebecome, and so but the same thing is kindness. Human beings do not rememberhow it happened. Why it happened. What happened? They remember mostly how theother person made you feel when it happened. Yeah it so easy to overlookthat actually kind of teas up a little bit where we want to go next to whichis, you know, we've been talking about impacts, but in our interview for thebook we talked a bit about counter impacts as well, and I think becausekindness is one of those things that's difficult to measure or quantify I meanyou can kind of feel it when you're reading qualitative feedback. I think alot of people overlook it. Just like people tend to overlook the counterimpacts of their action defined for folks who are listening, counterimpacts and then maybe identify some of the actions or systems or roles thatyou've observed tend to produce some of the negative counter impacts that weoftentimes sweep under the rug or overlook in favorr of the numbers thatwe do put up on the scoreboard so counter and practice the following, andI I'm going to describe this as follows: I'm going to use cold calling I am notagainst called Holly. I am very much in favor of cold calling when that is thepreferred channel that the customer receives to communicate with, and so,for example, we formerly- or we have had a client that is very successful.These days, call that that calls on trucking companies and in that rim youknow it's a mom and pop shop style of business communication fire. The phoneis not only like the right kind, but it's like it s, e Stabis, just trustand all these things, so it's very applicable for me. Personally, being as T, you know an executive in a marketing a sils world. The only time Iput down my phone is actually when it drinks. So for me it doesn't work right.So that's what I'm trying to defect them so for some it works great, forsomeone doesn't work so make sure it works. Not if I go and if I have a callcenter and I put a person in the coal center and that person makes a coldcall. The counter impact of that is...

...that you know like that. Phone numbermay be put on the do not callest. Now, if I extend this and say like Hey, Ican also do it. Email, I'm now going to email about now. What I see nowadays ofSaltos and I use A to call super human in order to manage my an email and oneof the early users, and so what what I've noticed and what I've started todo. I can only reject a person. I cannot only say, hey reject that personand even if, in superhuman I can say, reject that person and remove them frommy mailbox. Whatever has been sent, I can reject the entire domain. Thedomain now in this who gets hurt the perspective company. This is counterimpact now, where this breaks. My heart is where we go to the next level, whenwe ask our sales development, raps, our first job or second job or thirdjobbers who are early on in their career. You know like when we ask themto use their linked in profile to start reaching out and they get rejected. Itis not the company phone number who gets blocked. It's not the companydomain, dame let gets blocked, it is their individual linkin account thatgets blocked the counter impact of the individual rap and the way it hits themhas far more consequences than the managers who are asking them to do thatare currently understanding and, as a result, we need to be very cautioushere, but we are asking our people to do not for our best interest but fortheir best interest- and you know like- and I like to to bring thoseconversations up saying is like we cannot blame it on either party. Ifthey don't know what they're getting into- and this is what they're gettinginto because if you know like you, if somebody reaches out to me and as darestart selling to me, like look, you know, I can help you and he s r domain,but once I blocked you, I cannot now and generally I'm not going to blockand as the authority me called out bound email, that's not what I'mlooking to do, I'm just you know rather provided advising counsel and pointingto to a video, and it says, like hey, probably better off thinking about itin a different way. Well, let's continue down that path. Then what doyou think it means for the future of the Brs and SDRs, because in general,that seems to be the role that that would create the majority of or a lotof counter impacts. The way that most companies are structured today willthat stick around for the next five seven years, not in the rule we have itand for very simple reasons, Steve. It is essentially manual labor job that insoon will be able to be done better by artificial intelligence that get moreinformation from from the from the website from from public sources. Andyou know you see this currently now a plenty of tools that are accumulatingtheir knowledge and allows you to apply to it, but anything that is manuallabor historically, has a nature of being. You know like replaced by moreautomatic machinery, and so now, what does that mean for the role of the ser?Look, the great thing that we have what is the great value of as they are,including our own egger organization. The incredible misunderstood value ofthe ER role is that it is a great feeder pipe line for the entireorganization. It is a great way for young people to come into yourorganization of first job or second job doesn't have to be young necessarilybut for job or second job or that come in to the organization that learn aboutthe norms and values of a culture that takes place and take that experiencewith them to hr, to customer success to all kinds of roles. Throughout theorganization, even coding and Solomin less likely, but coding is definitelyan option, but if we treat that function, not as a seals developmentrole as in a you here too, but but brother as a hey, this is a first stepin doing organization. We need to make sure that we train this person a holdon to this person and give them a future career path. That, to me, iswhat we are really going to miss once we move to a more automated roll nowthat doesn't mean that it cannot be done. We just need to. We need to seewhat that Serro has done and has helped us with and have to figure out. How arewe going to figure it out into the future? As that roll becomes moreautomated, you know. Historically, I we...

...saw it on things like value and Roy andand budget, and one of the most eye opening or I should say, ear. Openingparts of the of our previous interview was your section on priority andpriority above everything else. So if you can, please just speak to priorityin the buying experience and then we're going to dive a little deeper into howwe actually make that happen. Of course, so priority yeah there's a really liketo recap the previous version. Previously we spoke about budget as aform of creating prayer, and hence the word band came through, and then manyand many drivers of that point out. That budget is an important feature.Budget just having the money was not big enough. What we realized is hey.What is the ry on it? You know what we saw at telepresence. We were askingcompanies to buy multi millions of dollars off like video studios. What wenotice is that this is like well I'm willing to spend that. But how much amI going to get it in return? Hence the term value came in now. Won't youbecause, where I'm going, I automatically point point theresolution to this. So what value is value is impact promised hold on tothat value? Is Impact promised? So when I'm selling a telepresence studio, Ihave to say: Oh, the value is that this can make a savings on your airlinetickets, that this can make a savings of people traveling staying hotels thatthis can increase the productivity of a person. That is the value now I have toprove that later on, and then I prove it. It's called impact. So, for example,when I buy a car to take me to the office, the value is that it can takeme to the office. I still need to drive it by gasoline by parking and so on soforth. All that value value you, his impact, promised impact, is valuerealized. So the last sight of the ball time is about is all about value andmarketing and sales. Does that and then the right set of the following? Whatwhat now o nowadays called customer success is all on realization of thatvalue and turning that into impact, as I said before, the new first principleof today's business is recurring. Revenue requires wickering impact. If Idon't have recurring impact that will not be reany recurring revenuerecurring revenue is the outcome of recurring impact. Now, if I on theright get that and I get that recurring impact to occur, then I know I'm goingto get the recurring revenue, and that brings us to the next level afterbudget and after Roy impact as a function of time create either acompelling event or a critical event. We call that priority priority isimpact as a function of time. Sometimes you need the impact priority. Sometimesyou don't eat it. For example, I use this. You know here in California. Ibought a generator. I bought a generator at the moment. The fires wereburning down and we started to get hit without ages. I mean like talking aboutlike buying an impact that is time critical right now, when you haveexperienced previously an outage, and you had to ditch your refrigerator, forexample, then, is what I call your educated buyer. You have experienced acritical event, and so you can ask people, have you experienced it before?Yes, then, when I sell the generator it's an easier cell, if I say hey,you're, writing an R, F, P or you're writing a proposal. Have you ever exexperiencing impact before no, but we are thinking it's going to happen inthe future. That is a different kind of cell. You do not have experienced it,so you never have an experience. In that case, you often create what wecall a compelling event. A compelling event has no impact associated with itthat you can empathize with so compelling event is often the proposaldo date, the RB response date. That is...

...a compelling event. It's important youneed to submit it, but as no one immediate negative impact associatedthan those people of you are less their federal government contracts. In manycases you can be two or three as late now, the real Poe. We now see thatpriority is essentially determinant in the way how buyers how customers aremaking buying decision- and this is based on the amount of SAS services ofthe company's buying- were no longer buying one sap, one cram one ERP Oneand son system we're buying like twelve. You know a quarter and even companiesare size and your size. You must have dozens and dozens you probably have. Iwould say that you have forty SASS contract that you're not even aware ofthat you did. You never see that you have that you're paying for is acompany. You have never seen nobody sees you, you seem to use it but you'repaying for it, and so because this volume has gone up it's superority andthat what we are saying now today- and this is so key and you're here- t e thenumber one challenge that sales prfessional have is to recoup clientsout of the go dark stage. Client has gone dark like Smit's, the proposalgone dark, and then we are asking sils professionals. Can you determine wherethey are? Did they have an event coming up? Do they have a t have a criticevent in the past and in most cases, people have a hard time answering thatquestion, because I never thought about it that way. The primary goal that theythought about is the client said. I need this by August first, and this isthe impact that they wanted and they focused on the impact they need toreduce the cost increased. The revenue change. This have an apple can trackingsystem. They were starting hiring. They surpassed a million dollar viewers atthat, but whatever it is, they focus on that and where we say, although that isimportant, the determining factor of to day of a buyer buying. Is this apriority this month, because even if it's not a Perte this month, it may benext quarter or maybe after January, first or maybe after we reach a millionviewers, love it for folks who were listening, there's a sixty second backbutton for a reason. I think that might be like four clicks to go back to thebeginning of that one. But the way that you broke, the head down was fantasticand I'm looking forward to playing that back again, one quick follow up is, inyour view, is priority, something to be discovered through conversation et cedocument. You gave a good example of how to follow up based on what youlearned about priority through discovery. Probably or can it be manufactured in some way that stillsincere and meaningful like can priority be injected? You know ifsomeone kind of raises their heads and says hey, I'm kind of interested inthis product or service tell me a little bit more and they don'tnecessarily have a level of priority. Can someone successfully insert thatpriority into their mind and into their decision making process in a way thatstill sincere and fourth rate as to the most sincere and commonly use way? Whatis the number one way how sales, in absence of a critical event, create acritical event? How would you do that if your sales person, scarcity orpricing tops Bingo a seas rare than I have somebody who just putout scarcity,hey product is going to end? That is what most people forget and thenpricing most people get, but scarcely just like that snap, it okay, I love itso and then its scarcity or, and so they're going to say like if you don'tbuy, I'm not going to have not gonna have to support or if you buy by thattime, I'm going to give you twenty percent discount right mind youpractical advice for anybody. Does that I'm not against it? I just want to makesure that anybody who ever gives a discount in the quote that they providewith the discount. They write in relatively easy to read letters theconsequence of not hitting the day most people say if you order by This Day youget twenty percent off. It is super important for discount to write if youdon't buy by August twenty. Second, as of August, twenty three, the price willbe x, N, W here's. What happens? The buyer sees that, and I mean the C F-always sees that then to see if I was...

...going to create at the end of thequarter. Three steck three piles of purchase orders are going to signbridges or de Numb they're not going to get to that. It's purchaser wive noexploration day, just as a discount level. Thank you very much well. Dothat when I get to perch in order to as a discount will get to that, but whydid my orders when I was in sales always get signed first, the day beforethe quarter close the day before the month closed, because it says, as ofMonday, we will charge you extra and that are charge you the normal fee, andit is very natural behavior for a person who is accounting base goal likeas penalty has no medal, has nothing right then, so they create so createthat it also creates clarity and on okay. Then you will come to me so Chako,but as of Monday, oh I'm, so sorry, I forgot the dates. I really apologize.Can you please please, please extend the this count. You know like, ofcourse, what are you going to say? No, of course, you're going to say yes nowmake a trade, I would say Steve and really you know what I'm going to helpyou give it great right, give it don't even trade right away. So, like lookmore than welcome to help you, can you help me with something Steve? My Co istrying to get with your Co. Did you help broker meeting? Can you help meout and broke or meeting the between the two? Now, what I got is a co D C onthe one that I was looking for and my co can say: Hey Welcome! Thank you forsigning a customer, and I have a COCO relationship in case later on.Something goes wrong that at least have spoken for a first time. Look easytrade to make. I help you not there you go. I help you a help me out here to abit right and not as mutual behavior. Not that is behavior that I canimplement right then, and there now, where I can apply critical event aswell, where it's most powerful, if I can apply it to my targeting to my abcampaign now, for example, sometimes events occur that are of such nature,that you target the entire market so, for example, the infrastructure budgetbeing released right like when an infrastructure bite like that beingreleased. That is an entire MARKETA. The building market will benefit thatfrom we had. The same thing was its awhat eight twelve. Now Sixteen yearsago, no twelve years ago, the the ACA budget will release the medical rightthat these are things school, but jes. You Know California having somethingthese are events. There's our marketing apartment is aware of that, and are wemarketing that, because that's an entire segment who suddenly needs tosubmit and make purchases of Er particular product that truckingindustry that I spoke about? They had a date previously they were doingeverything manual and they had a date, and I forget what it was, but it wassomething like January, first of two thousand and eighteen, that all trucksneed to have this electronic device on board. Obviously, that company was veryaware of it, but these these things are critical events and make it easy on us,and sometimes we forget about that. Yeah forget about to a change of gears to something a littlebit more personal that I just now that I have you in conversation here thatI've been just been curious about, since I connected with you on linked inyour headline, working with customers open my eyes and changed my life beingkind and assuming positive intent will help. You see the world from adifferent perspective. What you chose to do with that limited character.Count is awesome. I just want to hear you speak to it like, and I feel like Iknow where you're going with, but like I out to hear it your own words andwith your own spirit. No, I think all like look. I was raised in a culturewhere sills had a direct relationship to stake, dinners to Golfing Strip clubs andinternationally much worse in you know like and so on, and so look the cultureI was raised in is a culture that I was not proud of right as an asan Alpha going through dive and the way how we yaw. Like look. I want you tounderstand that sales was a very it's called an individual contributor,because it was a very individual contributor role. You went out on aMonday or Sunday night, all alone for...

...four days, and those of US lucky returnon Thursday night. Some of them returned on Friday, and sometimes youwere gone weeks out of office. I want you to imagine that that is the culturethat existed in B to b enterprise sales, particularly as you know, as we talkabout twenty twenty five years ago long ago, but not that long ago, right, someof it still markets. Some of the listeners go like we still have that it.Okay. Now what you and I and all of us can either well the choice that we'vemade. It says, like you know, although I didn't create, that the one thingthat I will not stand for is that we propagated that needs to end and thestory we're not reaching. We can't live in that world of locker room, behaviorkind of way, and always talking about the customers, like you know, sign onthe dotterine and so on. So we are responsible. We are a new generation. Now, when I look around us right nowand I see the marketing seals and customer sills per secting, I've notbeen in what I'm doing today for ten years, I am responsible for what iscoming next. Future generations can see the youtube videos and will halt meaccountable for what I've said right like that is normal. So now, when wewere cross this Portas, what do we talk about? What do we say? Are we going totalk about how you can span people with email and get the response rate up bytwo point? Eight percent, like is that the topic we're going to talk about isthat I don't like to think what has happened in my life. Is the moment intime that I have started, I have felt comfortable enough, no longer afraid ofthe consequences of naysayers and stuff, like that. The moment in time that Ispoke up and started saying we need to stop this alroad, not even startthinking about when you stop. This just said: Hey here's how we goin to goforward. Everything has started to all door started to open money, came androlling when I needed it not like overwhelmingly, but always just enoughto make it through to the next thing. The next thing, and so I realized thathey look if this door keeps on opening, then I'm not going to stop cushing, andI know that more and more now. What I find today is that I need to take astep back, and you know I let others say the same thing. Sometimes you needto you've pushed and then you got to remove yourself so that others can takeover and move on, because otherwise you become not only the motivator. You canalso hold it back later on. So that's it's. You know like thou and I feelstrongly about it for those you can see. You know my not lot tears welling up,but I have a tentasse that when I get emotional my tears, you know I startedto reflect that in my eyes, but I you know, I very feel very emotional aboutit. I feel very committed to that more so than it's just a tag line on awebsite or so way how we make money. It's essentially- and many of you whoknow people are winning by design, is how we almost look at everything intoany by design. You are a wealth, valuable information and we're deeplygrateful that you contributed to the book and this podcast here. Is there aparticular topic person or chapter that that you're interested in getting outto the world in the book in the Huand Human Center communication? Look, Iyell. I. I believe that what you and tear like what bombum has been doing isa super gealic. For me, it's yeah, it's a book and it's this and it's a chapterand obviously a recommend this chapter, I'm so excited about it like no. Whatit is, it is your rallying, a group of people. Now, when you go up, think ofthe following, you all will have been on roller coasters right and whenyou're in a roller coaster, you go up right and, as you go up ready beforelarger, like back and pack a tack and tack a tack right, do you know whatthat Takada is with what so there's like a littlethere's a little system of teeth underneath and every time the thingpulls you up that lock clack. That is a lock that says you will not go furtherback than the point that you're in right down. So even if all automationstops the cable breaks, you will only roll back to inches, because that'swhere that Kataki well right what your...

...book does and what Bombon has beendoing is just securing that whatever we do next, this is the beginning point.This is now okay, let's call this. This is what we work from. This is theroller we are not at the top. We're still rolling still a lot more to do,but this is the new the new way. This is where this is the base line. We'reworking from this is a new approach to looking at marketing sales customersuccess in one. That's what it does to me awesome. I love the analogy and forfolks here listening. This is part of a series we're doing with all eleven ofthe expert friends that we invited in like Jacko who are kind enough to joinus. You can go to Bombombay when you look at this post. By the way we talkeda lot about the bow tie funnel if you're not familiar with it. I willdrop an image of the bow tie funnel into the post associated with thisepisode, but you can also check out some of the ones we've already released,like Dan Tyre of hub spot Matt, sweezy of sales force, Lauran Bailey, a factorat in Girls Club. We have a number of expert friends whose podcast episodesyou can listen to a Botocan podcast and coming soon we've got Viveka rose anoven, Gress Adam contos, the CEO of Remak there's a lot going on there, andif you want to check out the book, that's at Bombombay before we let yougo, we all have something I have something to her. Can I share. I got asin to share yeah jump right in okay. Well, the one hour I want to have toshare it. You know like what am I going to say: Okay Hm, let's bring snoopin. Ladies and Gentlemen, I have something to share okay. So, as of June sixteenth, we arewinning by designed, I have to say our business is extremely successful, so Idon't have to worry about that. We have been successful on the framework of thebow tie of the impact and the priority based friendly that you heard medescribe it as of June sixteenth. We will make this available UN Sixteen TwoThousand and twenty one we make this available license for you rate on acommon license on a new website that were called the science of revenue sothat in the future of stills organizations start or want toimplement some of this, they no longer have to start and be set back with asystem that will hold them down for a long time, and we want to make sure Icall it the national park kind of approach at let look if this works andpeople are happy with it. Then you know like we want to avoid any vendor lockin or lock out, moving forward, and so we separated it from the winning bydesign entity, and we call it the science of Revenue Com and in there youcan start applying the boat. You can download it, you can copy it. You candownload the Gol slide on it. You can put it into your company, you can dowith it. What you want you can, edit it you can modify it. You can use spiceimpact critical event. All that frameworks are now going to be madeavailable to our community as a whole, hoping to put inanother clack clack clock. That is amazing, there's already so much likein your books in the Youtube Channel, there's already so much arty available.I love that you're. Taking this to the next level and for folks were listening.Steve mentioned off the top. We are customers of winning by design. We havelearned a lot from them. They've been very helpful to us, and so I know thatthis new site in these resource are going to be helpful. Whether or not youformally engage them. You at least need to start there that's out in the end,we knows like look, but what I'm a big believer in people buy from you. Youdon't sell to them. So if you help people be successful in the end, theoutcome is greatness, and you don't have to worry about that. If you keepthat in mind, I believe that's one of the most successful things I was oncetaught about in my own way. Impact is the precursor of revenue. You goreminds me of lead with value, and abundance will follow, yeah thatexactly we doing love how you folks, Keftian you yeah. So let's wind this upor put a boat tie on this one, ah Ha,...

...and thank or mention someone that has amajor impact to your life and or career Jaco. Okay, this is obviously this is agreat time to mention an affaires. I want you to understand that. I feelthat I feel challenged by mentioning a name, and I even going to you know likeI believe that I over time that we overestimate often the value of oneperson or we are not overestimate. We often put a lot of value on that. WhatI find historically, that actually it is so many voices not one not to notlike a trainer or a coach. They all have great influence, I have to say,but there's so many independent voices. You hear left a right when you stayyell like when you meet somebody at a camping ground or in soon. So if I lookback, I believe that the voices that I've heard is you are a product of yourculture and that we, you know like we should take a lot of care in who amtypically in today's world, who are the people that we surround with and whatare the voices that we listen to, and I think that, if we take good care ofthat, that the future will all take care of itself, is there a brand or acompany that you appreciate for the experience they deliver for you as acustomer? Well, first of all I want to to to thank Delta for Flying Me HomeTho. They get so much bad crap airlines. They never get like these good stories.So why not o leave and a good note on how Delta has this grievance flight,which gives you this benefit when you need it the most awesome to folks, youwant to be a ready in the men we go on, but we don't forget to can be knowingall of us. We are in such a privileged position, absolutely privilege and if he don'tpass it on, if we don't realize it, if he don't enjoy it, it will pass it byhis God. Olbein with that Steve. Even thank youfor having me today. Okay, thank you. Jako next Tako, the digital spaces andchannels we rely on every single day are noisier and more polluted than ever.So how can you break through gain attention, build trust, createengagement and improve our relationships, reputation and revenue?The author is of the Best Selling Book Rehumanize Your Business. Take thatquestion on in their new book human centered communication, a business caseagainst digital pollution to help they brought in nearly a dozen experts insales, marketing customer experience, emotional intelligence leadership andbeyond learn more about human centered communication and see special preorderbonus packages by visiting Bombombay, improve your revenue and reputationimmediately and in the long term, visit Bom Bombo Book. Thanks for listening tothe customer experience. Podcast remember, the single most importantthing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for yourcustomers, continue. Learning the latest strategies and tactics bysubscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit bomboost t.

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