The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 5 months ago

191. Operationalizing Love for Customers & Employees w/ Sue Woodard

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today’s guest says that love is a competitive advantage. Kindness, compassion, collaboration, empathy, and especially love are all good things in business both for customers and for employees. 

In this episode, I speak with Sue Woodard , Senior Advisor at STRATMOR Group, about how to operationalize love for CX and EX.  

Sue and I talked about:

- Why CX is your customer’s perceptions of your brand

- Whether CX is a team or a culture

- What the EX-CX connection has to do with humanizing businesses

- What it means to operationalize love

- How to start using video (even if you look funny on screen) 

Check out these resources we mentioned:

- Sue Woodard on LinkedIn 

- Rob Abele on LinkedIn 

- Harley Davidson 

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts , Spotify , Google Play or Google Podcasts , and find more episodes on our blog.

I care about them, I want good for them, I'm looking out for them. I know it's business, but the sentiment to me still works. I actually would go so part to say is that I think love is a competitive advantage. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte, selling to and serving people in roles that you've actually held yourself, balancing the tech touch in the human touch throughout the entire experience, changing your career trajectory by getting confident on camera. These are among the places will go in today's conversation with a mortgage and Fintech evangelist who's got a sincere passion for people. She built a successful career in the mortgage industry and loan origination, sales, training and leadership. She transitioned into content creation with vantage production, which she became president and CEO. She joined fintech software company Total expert is chief customer officer and today she's a public speaker and senior advisor at stratmore groups. Sue worded, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Thank you, then, I feel like I want to hang out with you every morning just to like hear all these like nice things you're saying about a good thing is we're recording this and I'll be available anytime, live or reported. Much appreciated, but it's great to be here. Thank you and looking forward to this. Yeah, meet you. I love what you've done in your career. I'm so privileged to have connected with you in person before and to be in consistent conversation. I'm glad that we're finally recording one of these because your background is so helpful to inform a lot of the conversations we're having here and I previewed some of them in the intro and we will get to those teams and see what else comes up. But we're going to start see where we always start, which is customer experience. When I say that, does it need to you you know a the the way I would I think about customer experience and I think it's an important distinction from maybe the The Standard Textbook Definition is. I think it's not about your process that you've put in place for experience or even really how you feel like you're treating your customers, but it is entirely your customers perception of your brand, your customers perception of how you're treating them, and that goes from the moment that they first come into interaction with your brand or knowledge of your brand, right on through their entire life time with you. But I think the distinction of looking at it from purely the customer receipt, not from our seat saying here's what we have in place for our experience, is is a big distinction with that, because often it's two very different things. So smart I've asked that question to almost two hundred people now and that theme doesn't come up often enough in my view. I completely agree with you. Like early in my career, when I was able to learn from a branding expert, gentleman named Curt Bartolach, who's kind of enough to be one of our first ten guests on this podcast, it occurred to me, you know, so often we talked about branding or we talked about doing experience design or customer journey and we think about all the things that are in our control, but ultimately the experience itself, the brand itself, is up to the customers to define it. All of our activity around this is simply to try to influence and guide and direct it, but it's not ours to define, it's only ours to influence. That's exactly right. Well, and and with all things I mean the someone's perception of reality. It's not always reality. So, as you said, all we can do is, you know, definitely try to influence, but I also think it's important to make sure that you're measuring it because I think again, sometimes we get very, you know, insular in that how we think our experiences, because we have all these things in place, but we're not like we think we've got a good experience. Well, you know, how do you know? Are you checking? Are you asking? Are you letting out those assumpects? So I think those are important distinctions, for sure. Absolutely, and we've had a lot of voice of customer conversations on the show, including most...

...recently with ton of Youerstrom, and so that that that feedback loop impart from sales into market. I'm in marketing historically throughout my career. So I think about it like sales feedback and conversations coming into marketing, customer care and customer service conversations and themes coming into marketing. They should also be going into product. Actually they should be going in and out of all the teams. Everyone should be familiar with it in addition to, you know, all the feedback machnisms we have to customer experience again, really broadly, in any of the roles throughout your career. Did you have a bias or a preference or would you recommend to say, a friend of yours who's in a meet say, let's just generically see a medium sized business. Do you prefer customer experience as like a team or a title or a person or a group of people, or do you prefer it as like an ethos or just a cultural component? And it's and it's everyone's shared responsibility? That's such a great insightful question and I would how I would answer it as I would say it is. It is both of those things. It is both something that you know. First of all, yes, needs to be culturally installed at the company where it's not anyone's job, it's not your customer support team or your customer success team. That's what they do and none of the rest of us have anything to do with that. But customer experience, as you just said, it touches every single stage from from marketing in the first impression someone is getting on through to, you know, sales in the first interactions they might be having, through to becoming a customer, through to even even building and things like that, and so it definitely is something that goes across the entire organization. However, I have a very strong opinion that it does need to have an individual or team, and it's be a small team, but someone who is focus is that and working across the team's to tie that together, because what I've seen happen in businesses is that you might have a lot of great teams that really care about customer experience and but marketing cares about and it looks like this. Sal Scares about it. That looks like this. You know support or success or other department's care about it. They but it looks like at and it doesn't necessarily provide again, where you're putting yourself in that customers see it. The flow and the holistic experience that they have is sometimes very disjointed. The voices are changing and even the look of things is changing and that could be offputting to a customer, especially if they're trusting you with, you know, a very large or ring, you know, personal transaction. And so I'm starting to see more roles coming up as chief experience officer or, you know, customer experience managers, and I do think it's really, really important to have designated roles that are able to pull themselves out of the daytoday and look at it holistically and and work across the different departments of a company to ensure that it is consistent from the customer Siat not from this this internal department. See so well said. I is, like so many things, like you, basically proposed to both end solution, and I think both end is so often the better answer than either or, and I think so often we can just one of my motivating factors to have started into have the privilege of continue to hosting host these conversations is I think it's pretty easy to take for granted that, oh, yeah, we're aligned, I know the leader of that team. We I know what's going on and in her team, I know what's going on in his team. And without that, without acknowledging that it is important work and it is significant work, and by significant I mean it takes a lot of effort. I think we can take for granted how aligned we are, in loose sight of how the customer feels about how allied we are, because they don't care what teams anyone or in less than you're when did you first become aware of Cx, like when did the language kind of bubble up for you? In another way, I guess you could approach this is, is this new language for old stuff, or is this new language for new stuff? New Stuff, like when did it come onto your radar and what gets you excited about it? Yeah, I would say probably just in the last five years have I really started to hear that term being talked about a lot. I'm sure was probably out there before, but particularly where I'm working in financial services and financial technology, I feel like that really...

...started to become like, Oh, everywhere you look, people are talking about Cx, just maybe over the last five years. The reason why I got so excited about it is because it that term hits at the core of things that I have been thinking about, an excited about and and have been working at doing over the course of my entire career, and I'm talking like going back to my, you know, my college job, and I think about the things that I loved about that job and the things, the projects I would want to work on and where I would get really excited. was purely about and it was cestomer experience. I just don't think we had a name for it them, and so that's why it resonated with me me so much. Is Not just kind of you know, it's the definition and recognition of it. But I do think, well, maybe the recognition of it that this is a thing, this is actually a thing that we should be paying attention to. It's also what I think has made it over the years and still now, challenging for a company to put budget around, because it's something that people say, well, what does this do? That sounds bushy, it sounds soft, it sounds like, oh, yeah, of person want to have a bed, customer experience that that's not like a job or a you know, a budget to that. And yes, it is, and it doesn't have to be a lot, it doesn't have to be enormous, but I do think that's one of the challenges right now that people are looking at is saying, okay, how do we invest in this and how do we prove you know, how do we show an ro I am and I think in some cases, if it doesn't look right on paper, you had a crumple up the paper and throw that piece of paper away and look at it differently on how you you know and being intentional about investing in customer experience. So well said, it is difficult to do roi on how people feel. It's difficult to measure how people feel right because the way people even Gary Vader Chuck One said, you know, people talk about Roy but what's the Roi on your mom so funny. I was literally just thinking that I didn't have the Gary Vader Chuck Attribution. Should fork my head, but like it's exactly what I was just thinking. And so, you know, it might come up in conversion rates, it might come up in retention rates or expansion rates. It might come up in you know, whether you're a four point six or a four point one, but it's always like a step removed because it is a little bit it's difficult to measure because it is about sentiment and people stated, people are trying to describe their feelings. For some of the mechanisms we have. It's one of the reasons I think customer interviews are so important. But I would love to ask you about two hashtags that I've seen you use before, because they draw to another thing. It's been a constant theme on the show, which is the excx connection love your customers and love your employees. A love is a really great word. Why do you choose to use it and be what do you think about the relationship between employee experience and customer experience? Okay, I love this. These are good, good things to unpack. So you know interesting that there's a lot of strong opinions about using the word love in business and there are people who say that you shouldn't use the word love in business because they could see you know something, mighty love dismission is not being serious if you say the word love, and I actually feel completely the opposite of that, because to me it's just it's just genuine. You should you it. Love can be a lot of different things. I mean ei them. Let's face it, I love my cat, I love my ice cream and I love my fiance in all very different ways, right and but it's still genuinely to me, the feeling that I would describe for any of those things is love. And so and I actually I have seen it in my business and especially as I started using these hashtags. You know, I think the customers that I work with, they know I love them. I do love them and I don't love them in the same way I love my fiance right, but I genuinely love them. I care about them, I want good for them, I'm looking out for them. I know it's business, but the sentiment to me still works. I actually would go so far to say is that I think love is a competitive advantage. I think love means, you know, kindness, compassion, collaboration, empathy. I mean these are all good things in business and you know, you talked a little bit about you know, how does this, you know, translate over into employee experience as well? Because it's true, it's...

...love your customers, love your employees? Are Two hashtags that I use. And now I don't want to get the HR people, you know, like worried about love and, you know, loving our employees that we can, you know, but genuinely the same thing. Compassion, empathy, collaboration and, I think, even hiring for people that are empathetic. You made a really interesting comment when we were chatting the other day about the relationship between CX customer experience in ex you know, employee experience, but I'd love for you to share again because it's a great spring Woord for this topic. Yeah, it's seas is a number of different ways and guests have over the years on this show, but Elizabeth Dixon, most recently, and I forget the episode number, said it is succinctly, as anyone else your customer experience will never be better than your employee experience will never be better. I love that. Yeah, I absolutely love that. I mean that and that really resonated with me because I think that's true. When you when you think about what that means, it just means you can't have a kind of shoddy employee experience and not really care about your employees but think that it's going to be really great for your customers. I mean they they not only are connected, one is the precursor to the other, exactly as Elizabeth said, I think really very well said. I also think you know right now, when we think about it, we talked about doing business, we talked about our customers. You know what the people you know, businesses are made up of people, of human beings, and and sometimes we talked about like, you know, when people talk in the mortgage industry, I love when people stop talking about transactions or units and they start talking about families. You know, it's not how many transactions am I doing and how many families am I helping this year? You know how many human people am I helping? And so I think it's important to again just just humanize it. This is, you know, your sweet spot. Is Really how are rehumanizing? How are we humanizing our businesses, because businesses are made up of people, are employees, are own people, they're not headcount, they're not ft ease their people. And I think particularly in the world that we're operating in right now, man, there's it's people are they're hungry for connection. They're hungry for connection and I think trust is also trust and respect seems really low and lacking in the world right now. And so these are places where, again, when we think about our employees as just human people that, man, we don't know, you know always the things that they're dealing with in their life. You know our customers. We don't know the things that they're dealing with, but they're humans. And they've got, you know, a family, they've got family issues, they've got relationships, they've got, you know, other things happening in their life and I think just putting this, you know, this layer of paying attention to the human in that and being okay to use the word love and and really looking for that communication, that consistency, the connection, the compassion and really, you know, I feel like right now this is a time when we need to kind of amp up, you know, smart business people are amping up on on trust, you know, and doubling down on connection with people, because people are are lacking it and they're hungry for it. Yeah, so well said. So many really powerful ideas and even concise statements in there that are worth listening to again. So, for folks for listening to coursors, a back button on your podcast player. That's why it's there, so you can double back. I use mine all the time when I'm listening to smart people. You talked earlier about perception and reality, like this is the reality. I mean, we're all experiencing these things. were all desperate for validation, to be seen, heard, understood appreciated as individual human beings, and all the relationships that were in. Again, I also appreciate your call to I love them, not the same way as my fiance, but like, I love these people like that, and that's all any of us really needs and wants. Another powerful word, you said is empathy, and one of the things I observed about the arc of your career is that, and I teasted a little bit in the introduction, so I'd love to go here next, is that you became a service provider to people in roles that you served in and at some level mastered, if I'm may be so bold to speak to your success it in some of those roles. Talk about like I mean, let's just start with empathy, I guess, the idea...

...that you're now providing products and services for people who are sitting in seats and challenge with challenges that you personally had yourself start there, and then we can maybe get into some of the nuances too, of the of being able to serve on both sides of that relationship. Yeah, you know what, that's an interesting point because, yeah, I was in the lending and financial services space for a long time and then made the transition to being on the the vendor, the service side, serving lenders, and you know, it's very interesting. Why'd you brought that up? Because I never really thought about a truly in that way, that that has built an incredible level of empathy, because I truly have done what they've done and I have felt the pain that they feel and I just I think you don't have to, however, do the actual job in order to have incredible empathy, but it does mean that it does have to be an effort. I used to get sometimes frustrated when people would talk about a certain business and say we don't need to know the business. It doesn't matter if it's, you know, financial services or tires of donuts. You know, I mean it's like you know, services, service, and it's like no, no, no, because the pains and joys and success is that someone has in financial services is very different than the pains and joys and successes of somebody in the tire business or donuts or what have you. And so I think, while you don't need to have done those roles, there's so much that can be gained by, you know, living a day in the life. And you know, one of the things I did actually I remember when I started at a total expert where a company that I was really honored to serve as chief testomer officer there. You know, there was a lot of really talented technology people, but they, you know, they didn't know really anything about the mortgage business. So they were a little bit in the camp of not by their any fault, but they're like well, you know mortgage business, or you know, I worked at this other place, that business, and we did these panels where I brought in customers and we would do sessions where we would have them for an hour and ninety minutes and, you know, ask them questions and just listen to again, their joys, their pains. There, you know, their frustration points, the things that sometimes you wouldn't think of, you know, the nuances of things that that were important to them, and it was really powerful exercise. We did it at various different levels of the types of customers we are serving, from frontline individual. I was going to say frontline user, but that's another term. It's like only in technology if you call your customers users. You know, it's like technology and drug dealers, I guess. But but it's, you know, from those frontline people who are, you know, hands on the keyboard, to administrators to executive very different perspectives, but really valuable to gain that we recorded it and and saved it so that I think people are still listening to it, you know, seven years later. So I do think it's really important that if you've sat in the seats and you can literally say I walk the vile in your shoes, so I get it. Awesome, but you don't have to have done that in order to have true empathy for them, but you do need to put an effort towards it to understanding. Yeah, and I really appreciate your call to spend sixty to ninety minutes in conversation with people, you know, if you haven't been in that seat yourself for perhaps even if you have, because you know some level everyone's experience is a little bit different in it leads to this kind of you know, what the conversation brings is something that the survey data, the product usage data and other forms of typically automatically collected feedback don't do. I think they give you a lot of the what and you can maybe infer some of the why out of it, but I think the conversation with people helps fill that in, like provides context, provide nuance and starts to really validate perhaps some of your theoretical wise behind what you're observing in the what of the data? What's your experience been around that? Well, I you know, it's interesting. I think I have never done one of those exercises where you don't walk away with something that's a bit of a surprise, where they bring up something where you kind of think, wow, that's now, that's different than what I what I thought. And you know, I also have engaged in some exercises around listening and mapping it all out right and mapping out saying, from their perspective, not from the company's perspective, from the company...

...the customers perspective, here's what this journey looks like and where we intersect with it, and you can really easily start to see these enormous gaps in it, because sometimes it's not just what you're doing, it's what you're not doing right and it's very and it's hard to solve for the absence of something until you sit and have these conversations and start to you know, really and honestly, even we would map it out with post it notes on a big wall in the office. You know it doesn't need you don't need complicated technology to do this. But it's I've never had one of those sessions, conversations where you don't learn something. Again that's a surprise. And sometimes a pain point will come up that they had no idea you could solve or that you could be a partner with them and solving and it's just you know again, that's so. That's the way you show you know, love to somebody as your I understand your pains and I understand your successes and I want you to have less of the pains and more of the sess how can I be your partner at that? Really good in I you know, I some of the pushback that people might offer around investing in doing that work. A the qualitative data becomes a lot harder to work with at some level. It's a lot easier to sort and manage quantit dative data, and some people would call it unscalable. And so what I love your insight on is like that push back. What's your feeling about that push back? And then kind of also go into start bleeding into perhaps you know, tech touch, human touch. I mean you managed, I expect, probably the entire post sale process at a software company. I'm sure you had to make some decisions about where are we going to invest human resources to do the human touch? Where we're going to be deploy technology to help them do it more efficiently, what are we going to actually leave completely to the machines? Like talk about scalability, tech touch, human touch, and maybe some of the things that you think and feel about it now, with a little bit of distance from having to make a lot of those decisions, you know, every day. You know, it's a very good question. I used to call it these exercises, operationalizing the love, like, because it's one thing to engage one on one with someone and, to your point, get a lot of you know, qualitative and, you know, feedback and information. While those are good and important, you do have to think. You know, this is always with an eye towards scalability. You know I mean, having worked at SASK businesses, it's all about it. You know, how do you you know, how do you scale? And I would call it operationalizing the love and how do we take, you know, something that we know is going to be really meaningful, you know, to a customer, and how do we operationalize that? And Really, I will say that journey mapping was a huge part of that and working with, you know, other colleagues across you know, the spectrum. I did run, you know, all of the the post you know, I ran customer success and customer support. Had a wonderful colleague running the implementation, and so it was really important to partner across those roles because again, you don't want to have this you know, siload experience, but their job is really different. You know, in a technology company or you know in a lot of businesses, getting somebody implemented onto something is not usually the most fun part. You know, it's tough, it's really hard to do. You know, different challenges come up you didn't know about, and so we would partner really carefully across that so that anything that we were doing before or after that process supported their process, which was in many cases for the customers own good. You know, we need to get them through this as quickly as possible right and it's not about rushing it, but it's doing a great job. So, you know, mapping all of those things out, what it allowed, I think, us to be able to do is turn kind of qualitative input into quantitative data points right where you could start to say you know, the implementation should last x loon or these are the you know, these are the rugs that we hear, you know, in different types of these are the places where we can start to see these gaps that exist. And so it what it was about those turning it into processes that, yes, could be automated as much as possible. You want to automate all of...

...that you can, and then put the human touch in there, or even sometimes it's the human touch behind the technology. It might be an automated email that goes out, but there's a big difference between automated email a and automated email be and and you know this. I mean again, these are things that I think I've just seen you and and the team at bomb I'm do so incredibly well. Is it's it's automation, but it's having at that personal connection to it. You could write an email that's sent out thousands of times in a very, you know, personal way. In fact, one of the things I used to do is I realized a disconnect, for example, and was when someone would sign their contract. There was kind of often a lag time between they've signed the contract and they're getting their implementation started. You know, maybe they couldn't start it for month. Right, lots of reasons for it, but they would kind of have this feeling of we just signed, but you know, where's all the like? Shouldn't there be, you know, I don't know, bells, whistles, some kind of congratulations? And so we put something in place. In fact, we used a bomb video that I recorded one time and it was welcoming them to the family and, you know, so excited to have you and here's what's going to happen next, here's who your resources are. And sometimes I would record a, you know, personal one. If I happen to know that customer real well myself, I would report it personally and say hey, ABC company, you know John Janet, it's so great to have you. And sometimes I would use this this canned one for scalability, but man, what a personal touch it was for them, right, and so I think there's just such an opportunity to, you know, again operationalize love. It's love at scale, but it does take grabbing those qualitative insights that you're getting and putting them in a quantitative and a journey and a process not to make it, you know, remove the human you know, just technology but it's too humanize those touches that are happening that scale. Again, so much really good stuff there. I love your approach in particular to a obviously mapping looking for the moments that matter. I think it's so easy to overlook buyers remorse in a bee to be setting, like we've all experienced it before, you know, like this, things thirty percent off, so we buy it and if it doesn't you know, you bring it home and then you pull it out of the closet it doesn't quite fit or the color doesn't look quite as good as you remember it looking. You know when you are you know these like buyers are Morse in a personal setting on all kinds of things, whether it's as small as a piece of clothing as I just offered, or maybe it's a car, perhaps even a house. But it's so easy to overlook it in be to be when in factors typically extra zeros behind those things and people's reputations on the line inside their companies. And so a really smart observation there about that as a moment that matters, that gap. But then be the use of video to humanize it and then see the idea of I'm going to put a video in place that fits most scenarios, but I'm going to be flexible enough to recognize that because the size of the contract or the nature of the relationship or unique aspect of this circumstance, I'm going to go ahead record a personal video, because that we call them evergreen because the evergreen video doesn't quite fit. So so much really good stuff. There's something that I would love to go I do want to talk a little bit about video, but I don't want to miss this moment because we're kind of at the doorstep and you already kind of mentioned it a little bit at toward the end of that last response, which is that you know, you've worked in spaces and bombomb serves customers in a variety of spaces that you're familiar with, and I'll just name a few of them. Real estate, mortgage insurance, financial advisory, and I would just observe and I curious about your observation as a thought leader in the space and in someone who regards herself appropriately as an evangelist of, you know, Fintech and some of these areas that that that people serve others through. So often people are in very smart, people are sitting around tables talking about the future of the industry and trying to plot ways to remove humans from those processes. You know, and it's true, and all of them that I just...

...mentioned, and we could also then mention some of the companies that have popped up that are trying to truly minimize the human and what do you think about the efforts to remove humans from some of these roles and some of these industries and some of these customer experiences that I think need love? Yeah, yeah, no, it's interesting topic to think about because it is something that in certainly in the mortgage industry, in the real estate industry, has been talked about for decades about how, you know the human is going to be removed and it hasn't happened yet. And there's a phrase that I've used over the years where it's, you know, talking about, as an example, a mortgage loan officer right, and technology isn't going to replace the loan officer, but the loan officer utilizing technology will replace the one who is not right. So technology, I mean, the way that I see it is that, and I do think smart companies are finding ways to install technology, not to remove the human but to elevate the human like automate all you can elevate that human to be doing just the pieces that the human is best for. You're not there to have that conversation with someone that's maybe at a really critical juncture with something about their, you know, financial world, their wealth, their insurance, their debt, their credit, their home there you know, all of these things right. You're not there as a human. You're doing these routinized things that technology could do for you. And so I've always looked at and I was on the sales end of financial services for a long time, and I always embraced automating all the things I could so that I was available to take that call and have that conversation with the human where I wasn't sitting there processing papers and checking boxes on things that that technology could do for me. You know, I was an early what I used to use was was act. I don't know if you remember, actually absolutely idea, but that's all that was available at the time. But I try to automate all the things I could with act, you know, because that was the technology that was available twenty some years ago. But the purpose of that was not to eliminate me, but to automate all this, to elevate me, to have these human interactions that were so incredibly important, and I do think it is. You know, as we talked about earlier on, you know, our customers are people and so and people tend to business with people. People generally don't pick a brand, they pick a human being. People don't just generally say I'm going to go with x Insurance Company, doesn't matter who it is, I'm going to start dialing numbers into a mean they don't do that. They find a connection with someone, usually through another someone who recommend someone. They're recommending a human, not just a brand. The brand is important, I absolutely I am not minimizing the importance of having a very strong brand, but the brand became great because of people and and again, human beings. Especially when we're dealing with things like real estate, mortgage financial services, these are typically pretty personal things. People's money is very personal to them, their homes very personal to them, and so it is about connecting with the human. So again I say it's not about removing the human, it's elevating the human to have those important human connections at the right time. Another good both and solution really smart and I agree with you that in a lot, so many of these cases, especially kind of this vein of you know, it's personal, it's vulnerable, there's a great deal of risk or a great deal of potential life impact involved, that my biases toward the person, how the person carries herself for himself, how that person makes me feel about myself, how that person makes me feel about them. And then, secondarily, it becomes the brand in a lot of those cases. And I think I absolutely remember many of these professionals I've worked with throughout my personal life, and a couple of them I don't even know, like what you know, what brand they were working under, honest, and that I can I get remember, remember their faces and names and a couple of them might be happy to refer and didn't sometimes follow those people when they changed brands? Yeah, absolutely,...

...hundred percent. Yeah, and there're a lot of things. There are a lot of things through this way. I'm thinking of something as slightly superficial but just as personal a haircut. How many people have followed someone who cuts their hair or styles their hair from one shop to another? Yeah, it is, and it is more than just the service they deliver. It is the conversations, it is how well they know you, it is. It's so many interesting human factors here. So I guess I will take it out a video. In one of our conversations you mentioned that communicating with video, not just in direct video messages, because you already offered an example of that, but you know even out on social was transformative for your career. Give a little bit of color to that and give a little bit of motivation to someone or inspiration or education to someone who knows that this is true. They've heard it before and they just are still struggling to get over that hup, like shere sheer, a little bit about your experience there. So interestingly, I found out, almost by accidents, that like Linkedin is a platform that I use quite a bit, you know, for be to be, and I was on Linkedin one day, this is like back in two thousand and seventeen, and I was getting ready to just put a picture up and, you know, post on something, and I saw this little video camera icon and I thought, oh well, I've never seen that before. What is that? Since I hit it I was a video and I have what the heck, you know, let's let's give it a shut and I just, you know, kind of off the cuff, thought well, you know, I'll just record this buick video. Well, turned out. I don't know why. I had gotten, you know, granted a Beta version of the linkedin video, but people were like how did you record that video? That's amazing. And so somehow I had gotten this early version of being able to do a linkedin video, and not just because I was early with it, but because I did stick with it. I want to talk about that for a second, about why I decided to stick with it and and how to get over that humh it was like, particularly before pandemic, during pandemic, the ability to make a connection via video, because it feels personal. I mean, if you're listening to this podcast, awesome. If you're watching any of it, I bet it feels a little different because you can see even smiling and nodding and you can see me and me gesturing my hands all around. It's just different when you are able to connect with someone on video and there is something physiologically digital eye contact. When you you are able to even make digital eye contact, it's happening through a computer right, it's but it there's something about it that gets to us at a deep level in our brain and it feels different than just, you know, looking at the Ed even a picture is good, you know, audio is good, but video is best. It truly is and it is the you probably know the stats better than me, but I know it's like the height most highly consumed content is video and something like ninety some percent consumers watch video of some sort before they will make a buying decision. And so the thing that I would tell people on video on one of the things that I've learned. Now, I would say it's gotten easier as I've gotten older, because I just have become less selfconscious, right. And so, however, what I learned was, you know, none of us are perfect. And what people will say when I asked them, you know, I'll ask people, are you using video and if not, why not? And I yere all kinds of interesting things. They say, well, I'm not sure you know what to say and I'm not, you know, I don't know if like my lighting or whatever, and it's not that, when you get down to it, they say I think I might look funny on video. I think I look funny on video, and I'll tell people in them with the most love. But if you think you look funny on video, it is possible you just look a little funny because this is what you look like all day long, right. We spend like our days backstage of our face. Right, we get ready in the morning, we look at ourselves or a few minutes, but't really look at ourselves for most of the rest of the day. And once I really got over that Hump saying you know, instead of saying I think I look funny, like the first time I saw myself on video, even like for an extended period of time, I was like, oh my gosh, I blink like way more than the average human does. I talk on the side of my mouth a little bit like, you know, weird, right. But then I realize that's what I look like all the time, right, that's what my face looks like when I'm talking. So, if you just a...

...wonderful thing, actually, I would say that happened during the pandemic, is we all got used to looking at ourselves on video, right, we all got used to the zoom and the go to and the Webex and whatever it is. We all got used to at least seeing our faces on video. And I know some people maybe feel tired of it, but I think for a lot of people it helps them start to get over that humh I heard somebody say once there's there's two kinds of people, those who are looking at themselves on a go to Resoom and liars. Right, because people are generally looking at themselves and how these my favor look right. But getting over that Hump Myself was and being able to record a video, and I'm really big on if I can do it, I I mean I almost always do it in one take, even if I mess up my words, one take and get it out. Otherwise you just started to get your head and then you never do it right here in this pursuit of perfection, and none of us are perfect, right. But the power of doing that, whether it's individually, whether it's on social whether it's to abroad group, I mean again, it's one of those things that I can't tell you it's made x dollars difference in my life, but it is without a doubt, without a doubt in relationships, in connections, in real business, in real dollars, has been game changing, game changing for me, and my career opened up different opportunities. I wouldn't have introduced me to people I wouldn't have met. It actually, interestingly, has helps me form connections and relationships. Sometimes, you know, I'll go meet somebody and they feel like they know me because they watched my videos and we don't really know each other yet, but we've got that warmth right out of the eights and it's you know, it saves you how much time and kind of like, you know, dance around. Do we actually know how to give you each other? You've already kind of met, and so it's, as I said, it's been, without a doubt, game changing in my career. So I can't help but evangelize for video because it truly has been, like I said, just one of the key things that I've done in my career that has had absolute impact on my own life, personally and professionally. So good for folks you are listening, reach out to me or reach out to sue. I have a number of things that I've produced over the years to help people with this challenge. This idea that you're going to judge yourself for far more harshly than anyone else will, that you do feel like you look funny and you sound funny, even though that is what you look and sound like. It's only funny to you because you're not used to seeing and hear it. Hearing it. I do agree that. I think it is a nice advantage to this kind of movement. That I think is really important for all the reasons you just beautifully described of getting confident on camera and being available more often on camera, whether it's live like this or whether it's a recorded video message or recorded for social you ran through all of those. Is just even kind of like knowing what your space looks like, knowing what it feels like. For me, I'm in an office with windows and so the light changes throughout the day and being familiar with what it looks like in the morning versus midday, versus afternoon, and like just all those things should be lowering the barrier and I just really encourage people to a listen to what sue had to say again, be look to people that are doing it around you and ask them honest questions. They'd be happy to answer them, whether that's the two of us or whether that's other people in your personal or professional life. This is absolutely transformative and so I'm I appreciate you sharing that in the context of this way. Yeah, one quick thing note on that. Everyone is carrying around a thousand dollar camera in their pockets right great, out, yes, you don't need you don't need specially equipment. People get really hung up on that. You have a thousand dollar camera in your pocket right now. Yeah, it's so funny. I mean, when you think about the battle like the smartphone battles, so much of the battle is happening at the camera. Right when you think about the things like when you look for the new iphone release or when the you know, when you're seeing ads for this new thing, and I guess right now it's about one that folds, which I kind of don't get. In really, the fold, I think, is as much about the camera as anything else. No joke, I think. And you see in the ads it's I can fold this phone. You're like, why would I want to fold a phone like my phone fits in my pocket now. Oh, it's so you can set it down and have it pointing at you. It's even. That's about the camera anyway. Great, great, add great observation for those of you...

...who have enjoyed your time with sue as I have here. I've got two more that I think you'll like. One is with our mutual friend Brittany Hod Act. That one is episode one hundred and twenty, the ABC's of creating super fans. Love is certainly an undertone in creating super fans S. that's one hundred and twenty with Brittany Hodac. And then a little bit farther back, episode Eighty Eight, with a lie to Scornia. We called that one talking x and x with Sandoso's chief custom more officer, sue. She served in a similar role in a software company, and we talked about that x ex relationship. So That's one hundred and twenty with Brittany. Want episode eighty eight with Ali and before I let you go to as you probably know, relationships are our number one core value here at Bomba and for folks were listening, I see that from time to time. The others are fun, humility, flexibility and service. But because relationships are our number one core value, I always love to give you the chance to think or mention someone who's had a positive impact on your life or your career. Yeah, you know, you asked me this and there's such a long list of people I could say, but I will call out I was involved in the group mistage, kind of an executive peer and mentoring group for years, and there was a gentleman by the name of Rob Abalay who wasn't unbelievable mentor guide, coach and courage or through a lot of professional things. And oddly enough, we were going through a coaching session one day and I was talking about kind of some you know, some personal organization and, you know, goals that I had and at the end of the session he said, I want to give you a fourth quarter action item, which is to go on a date with this guy that I know, and I was like what, and thus that's my fiance now. So his heads Rob Oblays, had a big impact in my life. Yeah, that's the transformative action item. How about take a seat in the customer chair. Give me a company or brand that you really appreciate for the experience they deliver for you as a customer. Yeah, the list that have for customer experience as much longer than ones that have great customer experience. But I would I would give a shout out to Harley Davidson. We own a Harley. I don't ride my own, I ride in back that I've enjoyed the Harley brand for a long time. When we have our bike in storage over the winter, the Minnesota Winter, the bike sends us emails from storage saying it's having a great time with its other you know, bikes and you know, kind of reminds us about some great rides that'll be coming up in the spring. And and Harley in general just has done a great job of building a community. It's a whole other topic about customer experiences building a community, but they have done they don't probably have the best bikes, you know, in the entire world. There's, you know, other brands that might be better, but people will buy Harley because they want to be a part of that community and be a part of that customer experience and so I just think they're I think they're exceptional. Great call out. I mean they really are text book I mean literally, I've read, you know, background on them in text books and I'll bet, I bet they show up in Brittany Super Fan presentation. Probably were forthcoming book, I'm not sure, but anyway, great call out. Thank you so much. For people who've enjoyed this sue, where would you send them? How can they learn more about you connect with you? Yeah, probably on Linkedin. Honestly, Linkedin is probably one of the best places. There's no caps on the number of people that can connect there. So I encourage people to follow me on Linkedin and I wouldn't I would welcome that. Awesome. And for folks listening, it's sue wooded. I'm sure you've been called sue would word before. Yeah, it's highlyered my last name just to make it easier, but I know it's ordered with one W. don't bonus w at the end. Excellent. Find her on Linkedin. She's awesome. Sue. I appreciate so much your time and I appreciate all of you for listening to this episode of the customer experience podcast. We have art in box constantly foam. We constantly have messages coming in. Work emails as went up to one hund and one. Have Ninety nine plus six hundred and seventy nine on ready mails. We're here to talk about a major problem. My name is Kip Bodner and I'm the chief marketing officer at help spot. I probably get ten to fifteen phone calls a day...

...unwanted, and I probably get fifty a hundred emails a day unwanted. When I think about noise and trying to get that out of my life. I think about it through my most scarce resource, was just my time and attention. Is it worth my attention ever here, versus like me, spending a moment with my son or cooking a meal with my son? The answers almost always know. We also know that the byproduct of that noise is feeling overwhelmed, feeling like there's not enough signal and that you feel discombobulated or confused. That's at least how I feel, so I also tried to protect myself from those feelings as well. Watch dear first name, a four part first of its kind documentary series now on Youtube, and explore how digital pollution is a roding our ability to communicate with each other and built trust. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefit fits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. rehumanize your business how personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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