The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 154 · 4 months ago

154. The Art & Science of Selling to Prosumers w/ Mario M. Martinez, Jr

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Consumers have turned into prosumers — that is, professional consumers. Before we buy, we read reviews, ask for advice, and do other forms of research about a product or service. What does this mean for sellers?

In practical terms, before you send a message, you’d better know what pages they were on to construe what they are searching for.

In the sixth episode of our Human-Centered Connection expert series, Steve Pacinelli and I interview Mario M. Martinez, Jr., CEO and Modern Sales Evangelist at Vengreso, about the art and science of selling to the prosumer.

Mario talked with us about:

- How people collectively make up the brand

- What a prosumer is and how we buy

- Where the line between art and science lies in sales

- How to communicate that you are interested in others

- What chapters interest Mario in Human-Centered Communication

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When you think about the prosumer isthe professional consumer knows exactly what they're looking for, they have an idea ofhow to solve that particular problem and they even know what other people recommend beforethey've even spoken to you. The single most important thing you can do todayis to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceedcustomer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast.Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the humancentered communications summer series here on the customer experience podcast. I am Ethan,your host, but I have a cohost this summer, Steve Passanelli, mylongtime friend, team member CMO at Bombomb, coauthor on the book Rehumanize Your Business, coauthor on the new book Human Centered Communication, and something that wedid with that book is invite eleven of our expert friends into that conversation,into that project, into that book, and now we're doing podcast conversations withI'm Steve. Who are we talking to today? Yeah, our guests todayis the CEO and founder of Vangresso, the modern sales of angelist, thepodcast host of the same name, the modern sales evangelist and excellence, andI know from personal experience, and excellent keynote speaker, a huge video salesproponent and just all around pretty good guy, Mario Martinez Junior. Welcome to theshow, Steve Ethan. Thank you, guys, for having him. Excitedto be here and I love the podcast. I wish the modern sellingpodcast was as awesome as yours, and so I'm glad to be here withyou guys. You know it's it. Typically it's as good as the guestsmake it, and I've enjoyed many episodes of your podcast. It's an honorto have you on this one. We're going to start, Mario, wherewe always start, which is customer experience. When I say that, it canbe kind of Buzzwordy, but it can also be really useful. WhenI say customer experience, what does it mean to you? WHOO, that'sa really good question and let me see if I can think of it thisway. I look at customer experience is really it's the sum of all interactionsthat a customer has with an organization and it's people over the life of thatrelationship, starting from first time at the website all the way through being anactual customer, and it also includes how they're interacting and perceiving the brand ofthat company or the brand of its individual people at that particular company. AndI think a lot of people forget that the brand of its individual people andcollectively the people make up the brand and you could have one person and acompany, as we've seen CEOS say, one bad thing or do one wrongthing by accident or on purpose, and the brand is totally destroyed. SoI think a lot of people forget about that last piece, which is howcustomers perceive that the individual, the brand of the individuals really good, andthe human brand because because those human interactions, like the customer facing people and thepeople who have an audience or a platform. You know, you mentionedto Ceeo who maybe makes a misstep or misstatement, those customer facing roles tendto create the biggest, I guess, emotional resonance and memory and can bereally highly consequential positive wearing a negative. Quick follow up, because I knowthat you interview all kinds of people. I know that you you and yourteam work with a variety of different organizations. In your view? You know,a lot of people are assigning roles and titles and even customer experienced teams, but a lot of other people are approaching customer experience as a broader likeethos within the organization or a cultural component...

...that really infuses and you're also thefounder and CEO of a fast growing company. Like give a preference for one orthe other, like formal entitled in a team for Cx, or doyou think it should be this more high level kind of ethos that the wholeorganization operates by? Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because just yesterdayI had an offer accepted by our new chief customer officer. So I thinkthat tells you where I would go. But you know, listen, atthe end of the day you do have to have someone that is overseeing thecustomer experienced and this individual is going to take the handoff from the moment thata contract is signed all the way through the life cycle, including what Iperceive will soon be the account management responsibility. So I perceive that sales will continueto be focused on the hunting finding that new business top of the topof the funnel type of activities hand over to a customer experience or customer officerand there his or her team. And very specifically, what will end uphappening is is that chief customer officer also is responsible for the selling as well, because of the account management, the account maintenance. So I perceive thatthat's where the role will go. Today and our organization, we have salesand account management sitting in one organization and customer experience, implementation, support,renewals, technology process all that stuff sitting in another organization. And there's athere's a there's a there's a fine line of demarcation between the two, butI do eventually those two things can cross over and they're going to start becominga lot more blended and more chief customer off ushers will come actually from thesales world. That's where I believe that will happen, is more V pieceof sales will start taking on this chief customer officer roll and being responsible forthe account management and growing accounts that that are inside the organization. That's awesome. In students exploring that that more in a second. But I had onejob and that was to get the intro right and I messed up your podcast, didn't? I, Maryo, messed up the that's okay. I didn't. That's okay. That's why I said the modern selling podcast. I gotyou. Don't worry, I got to it's gonna fire me already. Soyeah, I want to continue walking down that path with you. Just aboutlearning about a van Gresso and and your new role. For people that aren'tfamiliar with Vanresso, why don't you tell them a little bit about you,your company, your ideal customer and what problems you solve for them? SoI'm glad you asked that question, and this is super important. One ofthe challenges, I think, that exists in the world of sales is thatmost sellers cannot articulate who how you help inside of one particular sentence. Andso for Vangresso, we are a digital sales, training and technology company helpingcompanies like juniper networks, loomed looming technology and even the world's largest vanilla extractproducer. So helping them to prospect better and sell more. Essentially, oneof the biggest challenges that exist in today is world of selling is, infact, we know the number. Sixty nine percent of sellers report that thehardest thing about selling today is prospecting, is getting that first conversation, andit's actually a progressively gotten worse. From a year ago I was fifty eightpercent to now our most recent research in April showed that it was sixty ninepercent. So our focus is purely on helping companies prospect better and sell more, and that's using digital channels, so things like video, with bombomb asan example or as an example, social so leveraging those particular channels and that'sreally our core focus, is helping sales teams and sales leaders prospect better andsome more. And you provide a lot of great content online. Were fansof the content that you produced. Watched...

...a ton of your videos. Soso go check that out on your YouTube channel or than Gressives YouTube channel.One thing that we did in preparation for these interviews was watch the old interview, not the old interview, but the first interview that we did for forthe book, and we want to make sure that we asked questions maybe thatwe have missed or or maybe one to go deeper on that we didn't havea chance to talk about because it wasn't relevant or pertinent to the to theactual book topic and one of the things that popped up here was the prosumer. We talked about the prosumer in the book but we didn't dive deeper intothe prosumer and who they are and the impact that they have on the salesprocess because everyone, we were we were talking about this earlier. Everyone goesto the doctor and they know the thirteen things that are ailing them and thereasons why, because they do all their own research and they think they haveevery ailment, you know, under the Sun, and I'm sure the doctorsthese days are just like, Oh my God, like you know, youdon't know what you're talking about. So how do companies realize they're working witha prosumer, someone that did their research, that understands a lot of the thingsabout their product? And what do you do differently with the prosumer comparedto the consumer? So this is an interesting question. First off, Ithink that everybody should expect that we're going to buy like a prosumer. Nowwhat is a prosumer? It is the professional consumer. So that means I'mgoing to buy professional be tob services as I would as a consumer. Well, what does that mean? So thinking about this whole customer experience. Right. That basically means that when I go out and I want to try anew restaurant, as an example, where's the first place I go? Steve, Yeo, Yep, I go to Yelp. Right if I want togo buy a new product on Amazon that I need, I don't know ahair trimmer, as an example, I know its hair trimmer. Whatever I'mgoing to do, I'm going to go out and look at what on Amazonreviewss reviews. I'm going to go look at those Amazon reviews, even ifI'm no doubt going to go download a new chrome extension that is the coolestchroming engine out there. What am I going to look at when I'm onthat CROBEWEB store? The rating of the five points, five star scale.You got it. So so we've now become a customed to buying things thisway. In fact, if you look at some of the big sites likeAmazon, facebook, Apple, Netflix, Hulu, we can't even go ontothese sites anymore without them saying hey, you know, since you saw this, you're probably interested in this, or you watch one thing of my newSitcom that I've been watching is blackish, and I just I think it's thethe hell most hilarious Sitcom out there, and so it. And now thatI can, I show up there and now I'm being served up all thisother comedic content, right that is pulling up in front of me, andI've come to appreciate like well, if they know that I like this,then I probably might like this. And so, as a consumer, I'venow adapted my ways of just listening to the AI and watching the AI,thinking that it knows. So now let's move that, that mindset, thatmethodology. What we do as an individual consumer, no matter what we're buying? Right, pretty much, no matter what. Oh and by the way, if we can't find reviews, we're going to ask Johnny, Susie,Billy Mary within our circle or sphere of influence. Hey, I have thisproblem. What did you do? or I'm thinking of this. Have youever used this? So we're going to ask for advice. Right. Sonow we move that into the business world. And if you think about whatever thethe leader might be, whether you're an I te, leader of sales, leader and marking leader, whatever, legal, whatever the case might be, when you're going to go buy something, the first thing that we're going todo is, we're going to go look up information about that particular product. What do other people say? What do other customers say? What arethe experiences? And if that's not available or it takes too long define I'mgoing to go out to my network of...

...other IT leaders, other sales leaders, other marketing leaders, other legal leaders, whatever it is that I'm I'm inthat that are my peers, and I'm going to say, Hey,guys, I'm looking up doing a new arp implementation, I'm looking at buyinga new video sales acceleration tool, I'm looking at buying train training for whatevermight be. Who Have you used to help your employees in this particular area? And then you're going to get recommendation number one, two, three,four right, and I was just on a forum where an individual road toabout eightzero people in this form. Hey, I'm looking for enterprise sales prospecting training, and who do you guys recommend? We're totally amazing when we get thefirst conversation and to close. We know how to do that, butwe suck at getting all these conversations. So we need help here. Rightthe pre hello, and what do people start doing? Try this, trythat, try this and then people started giving recommendations on how to solve thatproblem without having to go to a vendor and start a questioning that person whythey were even looking for this particular service. It was like stuff that you didn'teven ask for and you had all these recommendations of people's mind, ontheir right. So the reality is is that we're going to listen to that. And so what we have to understand is that when that customer comes intothe door, or potential customer comes through the door, when they hit ourwebsite, they're looking for something. When they touch our salesperson's linkedin profile,they're looking for something. What are they looking for? And that's what wehave to uncover, is understand patterns of what they're doing. As an example, I tell our sales team before, Dear God, please, before yousend a message out to this new person, you better know what pages they wereon. Why? Because you're going to see some of the things thatthey might be looking for. For example, if someone is looking for Linkedin profileinformation, linkedin headline, if they're looking for how to add featured mediaand there are a VP of sales will likely they're probably looking how to spiceup their profile. So that they can figure out how to get the newjob. But if they came to our website and said I want to knowhow to prospect better and they went to that page, what are the tensteps to launching a digital sales training program or they're looking at social selling training, or are video sales training pages? Guess what? They're probably looking forsomething to do with the sales team, and now you're structuring that conversation ina different way and as you approach that particular buyer. So I think thoseare some of the things that we should be thinking about. When you thinkabout the prosumer is the professional consumer knows exactly what they're looking for, theyhave an idea of how to solve that particular problem and they even know whatother people recommend before they've even spoken to you. And as such, we, as a customer centric organization, must mold to those types of activities thatthey may have been doing in advance and whatever mindset has been shaped beforehand,we might have to mold, shift, shape or augment whatever it is theyhave. And that what that's what makes our job, especially on the saleside, so much more complicated. Yeah, there's so much there. This ideathat there's a lot more information than I think a lot of our customerfacing people are accessing properly. I love this call to look at what pagesthey're viewing and I see just makes me think about all of the information thatmight be available and how we can better harness it and just served it upto people as they're talking, to be able because essentially, you're you're ina lot of cases, I expect we're forcing people to do, you know, like we have to answer the same question three times as you're talking withthree different people in the phone chaine or whatever, or filling out the sameinformation on the second or third form, whether it's on a clipboard or whetherit's on a website. Same thing. Really good recommendation there. I wantto switch a little bit to art and science. I think of all thepeople that have spoken on these themes of...

...like blending the art in the sciencereally in any capacity. In this case is specific to sales. You're oneof the most fun and articulate to listen to on the topic, so I'lldo a dummy pass on it, which you can feel free to punch up, but then also flip it into a question. So the science is essentiallythe system in the process and the science is very often, I feel like, prescribed by the organization. Who is the target? What's to persona?What scripts are we using? What's the cadence or sequence, etc. Andthen the art is, how do we make that human? How do wemake it personal? How do we bring it to life and add some humanqualities or personality to it? And that generally is the the opportunity or thechallenge or the role of the sales person a. Did I get that aboutright? And then be I've got some hiring questions for you. So Iguess we'll start with a. So yeah, I think you absolutely absolutely got itright, and I call this any given day I literally can flip acoin and I could be sales is sales and customer success. Frankly, couldbe fifty one percent science and forty nine percent art. But I could alsoturn around and argue that is fifty one percent art and forty nine percent science. Right. So like it just depending on the day, depending on theircircumstances, but for the most part, for the most part, I dobelieve that it is fifty one percent science and forty nine percent are generally speaking, and I'll give you a very specific example, especially when it comes tothe science part of things and to the art side of things. Recently someonereached out to me who is a potential buyer and it's a leader at anotherorganization, and they reached out to me and they said, hey, youknow, remember we were on a call about whatever it was a year agoand you were talking about how to work the linkedin algorithm if you would tobe able to create visibility. Do you have that document at somewhere, someof those pieces of information, and then in the stats and so the sciencewould have told me, yes, I know, here are the things youdo, here are the top four things that are best performing on Linkedin.Here's how you post, here's how you be able to get the visibility youwant. Here's how many likes and comments that you should be able to drivein the specific sixty minute time period. Right, that's the science. Icould have replied back and said scientifically, here's how you do it. Yes, Mr Customer, this is how you do it, but the art inthis case is what trump the science. So the art said, Whoa,that's a really big question, because there's like a billion linkedin algorithm components.Let's just make sure we're narrowing down this topic. Are you referring to howto get your posts to get visibility, or are you referring to how toget your profile to get visibility, or are you referring to something else?Now, I knew with ninety nine point nine, ninety ninety five nine percentcertainty what exactly this person was talking about, because I was one who spoke aboutit a year ago. Right. But why did I do that?I wanted to ask a question, to create the engagement. That's the artof selling, right. I wanted to be able to get that engagement andconfirm that this is what they were looking for, and then, once theyreplied back with yes, that's what I'm looking for, and I said,AH, my goodness, this is a huge question that requires a huge answer. So I'm going to write you a book. But I tell you what, the answer is probably going to create more questions, which is going torequire you and I to have a what conversation being? Yeah, a conversation, and I put besides, it's probably time that you and I have adiscussion around how we can help your organization prospect better and sell more. Now, I went through this process. And this is now the science, becausethe science part says you need to focus in on how to turn an onlineconversation into an offline conversation. But now the art. I flop back tothe art, and the art says give...

...value, give to get right.So that value is is I'm going to give you all that information books.Then I just rattled off all the formula and then I said, and bythe way, I'd love to have a meeting, so let's go ahead andschedule this. Here's my schedule link, if that works for you. Andthen I close with the science and art and I ask one word with aquestion mark, helpful question mark, and of course, this particular individual rightsback. Oh my God, I was not expecting that. This was absolutelyamazing. Yes, absolutely, and yes, I'll, I'll absolutely agree to ameeting. And besides, is probably a good time for us to starttalking about this anyways, because there is a need. Well, great,so now we just took a conversation that was totally unexpected to create a meeting. I provided the value which the science says give to get right. That'sthe science. But now the art was I have to figure out all thedifferent components that are actually going to help provide the value. So it's avery intertwined environment inside here and most sellers struggle with thinking of science and art. Most sellers say, now, what did my sales enablement team tell meI should say on this particular or what's my playbook say if the customer askthis question? What's the playbook say? Right, it's like the if.Then try like its exactly. I don't see my if. Yeah, youtake that piece of paper on, you got the bubble tart on and you'relike, okay, where on the bubble chart is this the eventry? Exactly. It almost looks like our marketing automation workflows exactly right. So, yeah, so that's the whole art and science of that and I don't hopefully peopleare following along with this concept, but it's very tightly interwoven and it takes, in my opinion, years of experience to be able to to learn howto do this right. But if a salesperson or customer success individual, especiallywhen you're listening for buying signals right, what do you say next that's goingto move somebody along that process, that takes a lot of experience. Butare also takes listening skills and it does require that you use your brain immediatelyon the fly, like you. There's no book, there's no playbook,there's no workflow, there's no bubble chart that would have showed me step one, step two, step three, step four, step five. It's justbeing human, human centered communications. Yeah, yeah, and it's funny. Imean, though, with just that if then thing that we hit onfor a minute, I mean figured if it was really that easy, thenyou're leaning too far to the science and you're just going to be turned intoa Bot, because bots do with then better, with deeper rule sets.quit follow up and I'm going to ask it, even though, with Steve'sidea for the question. I love this question is kind of like two questions, kind of Yin and Yang a little bit, kind of like your fone hundred and forty, forty nine and fifty one. How do you,Mario, because you are a master salesperson, you have been doing this for years. You can see these moments and make these decisions intuitively and on thefly, sometimes probably consciously as well. How do you, and I knowyou've hired a lot of people too over your career, how do you identifysales reps in the hiring process that you feel confident but that they have ahandle on the art? And how do you identify sales managers in the hiringprocess that you think are going to be good at structuring the science? HMM, that's a really, really, really good question. That was Steve's questioned. I just have Steve Can. Great job. That's a really good question, buddy. It is as yeah, it's Tom so funny that you youasked this question because this this morning, I was talking to the founder ofZand, Dave Elkington, and we were talking about this question. We hecalled me up for a ten minute discussion about, you know, something offtrack, and we ended up being like an hour and a half and wegot onto this topic here. If anybody goes to Google and just types inthe word remote or words remote selling,...

VINGRESSO's our article on mobile is thefirst article that appears, but it's like, you know, position number one,one or five, some somewhere between their unremote selling and inside there I'vewritten article on how to hire a revirtual seller and I'm going on this pathbecause whether you're going to be a field base seller, that's facetoface hands down, you know, and feed on the street or you're a virtual seller.This practice that we do is critical to be able to understand whether or notthat person has the capabilities that you've just described. And so one of thethings we do is what's called a group panel interview, and if you goto this article, we actually put in our script the exact script that wesend this individual before we hire anybody. And forgive me for use of thisterm, because our this phrase is because it's definitely the mail chauvinistic term.So any any of our women who are listening in, you'll understand what Imean when I say this process separates the men from the boys, all right, as we say in this particular term. And what we do is is weessentially have a whole entire four or five paragraph, you know, messagethat we send the individual and we give them constructs. You're going to doa group panel interview. It's forty five minutes long. You have five minutesfor the INTRO, you have thirty minutes for presentation, ten minutes for Qa, and that thirty minutes you have three things that you're going to present on, and three things only. Why you Wi Vingresso as if you were sellingMingresso, and then a teachable moment, something that you're passionate about, couldbe ballet, saxophone, piano, whatever might be right. And then wesay there are no rules. You are the seller, the product is youand we want to see how you're going to perform. Here are the twentyfive people that are going to be there, or five or seven or whatever thenumber is, and we have people from all over the organization that joinsin on these because it's actually a special moment that you get to be partof as an employee to shape the culture, to see who's going to be here, to help identify who's going to be successful. So it's a groupactivity and we say there's no rules. So recently we were we sent thisout to to a couple folks that were in a process for a leadership rolland one person never read the article, the remote selling article, and ithad they read that remote selling article, they would have found the in tireevaluation document as a downloadable asset in the article. So they would have seenwhatever evaluate, whatever panel is is always evaluating them on the twelve points.They would have seen and they would have seen the scoring system. They wouldhave saw all the different metrics. And on top of that, they didn'tgo through and look at the twelve people that were invited to this panel andpre engage with them as you normally would in a sales opportunity. Right,I'm going to connect with Steve before that particular meeting and say, Steve,if I'm looking forward to meeting with you guys on whatever day, I loveto be able to connect your on Linkedin. So that's one and here comes theother one. The other one looked at the same set of instructions,read the article, download of the evaluation, the criteria, watched the forty fiveminute video of the example that we have inside this remote selling article,watched it all the way through, connect it with the twelve people and bookedmeetings with anyone that they didn't know in advance to ask for advice, criteria, information, how to, what to win to right, to look atthat buying influence. Now you don't have to be a rocket scientist to figureout who came out of the top right. So how do you find that rapwho knows what they're doing? You put them in a sale simulation.What they didn't know is that that was a sale simulation test. What youdo on that interview in selling you is what you will do with our customersand they will either like you or not. And that, in my opinion,is like what I've been using for years and it works brilliantly. Andit's not just sales people. We do that for our are anybody who's touchingthe customer, customer success, and even...

...some roles in marketing, like theleadership roll, because you may not be selling externally, but guess who you'regoing to be selling internally. Do you have the ability as a leader toarticulate your ideas within the leadership team or your peers? And when there's conflictor when the someone challenges you, can you address those types of things?And then, finally, finally, the very last criteria, the very lastcriteria on that evaluation sheet, which the you know, whole system scoring andeverything inside there says did they go for the clothes? And inside the remoteselling article is specifically says you're going to either get a one or a five. One is the worse, five is the best. Five says when canI start or when can I get the job offer, or am I yourguy or Gal? To be able to get this job. How do youfeel right now? Are you going to offer me or what one of ourcandidates did in this case was okay, well, thank you. That's theend of my presentation. And then I said, fantastic. Is there anythingmore that you want to ask us before you click? You you sign off. No, I'm good. Are you guys it? Yes, I'm good. Okay, Great. Well, thank you so much. Are you sure? Nothing else you want to say? No, nothing else. Okay,ouch, boom. Week, hunt up the phone and guess what everybody putin that box? Twelve people. One, one, one, one, one, one, right, you can you can't do zero, or maybeyou can't do zero. I don't know, maybe you can't do zero. Butwhatever the number was, they just they didn't get it. So ifthey had realized, they could have automatically gotten a five points just for askingone simple question, and that was is do I have the job? Sothere you go. That's what separates the men from the boys, as Iwould say it. Who that was awesome and leads us right into our nextquestion, because the theme that you talk about quite frequently is show me thatyou know me, and you just explored that topic within the company in thehiring process. But of course we want to also sales people want to showtheir future customers that they know them as well. And it's funny, ethan I were talking and at some level it's like irrational for a buyer toneed this or want this on on a particular level, that a random salespersonknows and understands them. And as we began to dig deeper into this topic, we ask each other a few questions of like, okay, what's ideal? Speaking of forty nine percent and fifty one percent art and science, howmuch does the seller need to show the future buyer, the future prospect,that they know them as compared to knowing the company? The problems like where'sthe balance there? Do they need to know the individual and do some elementsof understanding who that individual is and their likes and interests? Is that moreimportant than understanding their role and understanding the company's plate? How to sellers navigate? Show me that you know me? HMM. Well, let me illustrateit with what we do in real life, right, we talk about the humancentered communications. Right in real life, Steve, I met you, whateverit was, four years ago at a selling power or a sales threeAtto conference. You were host of the program and I actually want an awardfor best video, I think it was. In fact, I've got the Igot the trophy right over here, right from from you guys. Igot that trophy. And, by the way, my boys keep taking allof our Bangresso trophies, and you know they haven't been any competitive sports forat least the year and a half because of covid and so they're taken onmy trophies like that. Can we have your trophy? Okay, sure,no problem. So I got your trophy still. So let's illustrate that towhat we did. Look, I came to you after winning the award.You and I were out in the area where you get the foods and theyou know, whether vendors are at and all that table area, right,and I walked up to you and I said, Steve, great to meetyou and I started having a conversation.

Love what you guys are doing atbomb bomb, right, and start talking about bomb bomb, where you guysare at. Conversation to have with your CEO once before early on, andthat's how I started the conversation. Then you wanted to know a little bitabout me, right. So to have someone the interested in you, you'vegot to be interested in them, right. So that's the challenge that we seeright now happening is that people, especially raps, they're not being interestedin the other person. When if I had came up to you and said, Hey, Steve, thanks so much for this award. By the way, Ring Gressow, where the world's are just digital sales training company. We'vegot the best video sales training program out there and, by the way,you want your product to be inside of our sales training program you would havebeen like, who is this schmock right, like this ego arrogant guy. Butno, that's not what we do as humans. We just that's notthe way we center our communications, how we communicate with but how we formfriendships and bonds is by getting to know that other person and naturally that otherperson wants to get to know us and over that interaction we begin to buildtrust, trust and what that person might say. We may not necessarily agreewith them at all times, but we begin to build trust and what theysay. And that's one of the big challenges. And as if I lookat as an example, I've got literally right now. A hundred invites inmy inbox. Right now, a hundred invites in my inbox from for Linkedin, and I'm actually I've been saving them up because I've been I'm getting readyto do a how not to connect on Linkedin and we're creating a book.It's actually a book, and I'm copying and pacing all these people's linkedin invitesand here's one for you. Hi, Mario. I'd be honor to addyou to my network. Thank you. What how about this one high exclamationpoint. How is this your going for you, or this one? Hi, Mario, I hope all is well. Are you open to having our CEOso and so as a guest on your podcast? She's constantly speaking abouta little diarrhea and I'm like, what do you even? What's the nameof my podcast? How A, let is start with that. Right.You want your CEO my podcast. How about use the name? or howabout say I loved your episode with Andy Harris, CEO of Challenger Self,or Steve Patchin Elli, right on your podcast. I loved it and Ithought so and so might be a good guest because, and whatever it mightbe, right, show me that you know me and that particular regard,or the ones that I really love, the ones that came in today,is I'd like to add you to my network. I'd be grateful to connectM yeah, and I'm sure you haven't one in there. It's like wehave connections in common, connection the common or I looked around your profile andyou're someone whom I'm want to connect with. Yeah, what's in it for meright now? I said. So that's what we think of when we'reat you know, as prosumers, right, we think of like, what's inthis for me? Like if I'm going to become a friend and expoundenergy to befriend somebody, what's in it for me? We always think thatway, unfortunately, and sometimes we're just the giver. Like, you know, when Dave called me this morning and we had a conversation, I didn'texpect to spend an hour and whatever it was talking to him. I didn'texpect it at all. But if Steve called me up and said Hey,can I get your advice and something, and that turned into an hour longconversation, or you, Ethan, I would give it all day long becauseI respect you. We built up trust, we built up this relationship, butdon't come after me as a salesperson. Do not come after me with somecockamany crappy stuff that is putting put out there, because you're just doingcontrol. I'll pay. I'll control it as a control p control P forpaste. Show me that you know me. That makes it at least for meto say, okay, at least I know that they did some research. Let me figure out who this person is. Give me something to workoff of. As always, a wealth...

...and treasure trove of information. Justlove. Like the biggest nugget for me during this conversation was the hiring process. I mean, that's just brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant that you put thattogether. So you know, we have more great information from Mario in theBook Human Center Communication, where he goes was deep into so many other topicsof connecting with people, but it's not what I'm going to talk about here. Mario. We want to know what, what chapter, what person, whattopic are you most interested or excited about for our readers to dive into? First of all, I'm freaking pumped over this book coming out right.That's the first thing, and hopefully everybody realizes. You know, human centeredcommunication. That's where we're focused on. We've got some great folks, man, you guys did a brilliant job, not just because I'm in it.Okay, okay, okay, baby. You guys did some great a greatjob at sourcing some really amazing, awesome talent. Right. I cannot gowithout saying Bivocabon rose, and she's our chief visibility offer officer for Bingresso,and I thank you so much for including both of our inputs inside of thebook. But folks like Lauren Bailey and Morgan Ingram, I mean Morgan Ingram, talks about people first, prospecting, right, and here's a younger guy, right. I'm forty five and older, and you know, Morgan is isdefinitely on that younger side. That has built an amazing brand out thereand it's talking and helping SDRs, these young strs who are just out ofcollege and in that first three years worth of experience that, quite frankly,in most cases, really suck at this right and that they need that development. He's really taken that time to focus in on various topics, including thecommitment and and the formula for video prospecting and really putting people first. Thenyou've got Vivica, who I mentioned earlier. You know, we're talking about withVIVICAP, some of the how to sell with video, some of theways that you can improve your results to capture people in to that particular video. It's to pull them in. And then you've got folks like Lauren Bailey. We're talking about the confidence component inside here. Look, some of usare afraid to be on camera and most of us have adjusted to this asa lot as result of covid and being forced to. But by the way, you look at yourself on visiting you're like, Oh my God, I'mugly, I'm fat, I got a pimple, I'm losing my hair,my hair is gray or, in my case, I got a nine inchfrom eyebrow to receding hairline and nine inch gap right there, right from receivingairline. People have all of these insecurities and with that in mind, youknow building up that confidence is super important. How do you do that? And, quite frankly, Lauren's chapter, this is the decade for sellers toshine, right and this truly is, and the use of video is atthe top of most engaging content. If a seller uses it, if aseller uses it and frankly, most sales leaders who are my age, fortyfive and older, most customer success leaders who are at the VP and aboveforty five and older. Can Guess what? We never welcomed a new client froman onboarding perspective with a video that says hey, thanks so much forbecoming a customer. I'm your CSM, your customer success manager, and I'mvery excited to work with you. Guess what I'm going to do? Intwo days I'll be in touch with you to look at setting up our nextmeeting. On the next forty eight hours, I'm going to review your contract toget everything aligne. And then all be in touch with setting up ameeting or if you want to book that right now. But I did andclick on that link directly below right. We didn't grow up doing that inthe customer success channel and sales people didn't grow up using this, and somost of us who are that forty five and older, we don't know thedefinition of good. All we know is...

...what our fourteen year old kid isputting out on ticktock as an example and what's creating attention. But what's thedefinition of good? We know the definition of good a good cold call.We know the definition of a bad cold call, but we don't know thedefinition of a good video message. Why? Because you never sent one before.And so I think this this book. I'm super pumped about it. Youguys did an amazing job. Everybody should go out and grab hold ofthe book and it definitely will help you on your journey for leveraging video asa way to communicate. Man, I want to buy it and I'm prettysure I already get a copy. That was awesome. Again, so appreciateyou being part of it. For folks were listening, course, you learnmore about the book at Bombombcom s book. It is available for preorder. Formalreleases in October. Mario mentioned Morgan Ingram and Lauren Bailey. If yougo to Bombombcom podcasted, their episodes in the series are already available. Comingsoon, Vivicavon Rosen. Her episode releases I think in two or three weeks. I forget how we structured the release, but she'll be coming up and youcan learn about all these episodes that Bombocom podcast. Steve, let's askMario the questions we ask everybody near the end of the episode. Two partquestion. Oh, first part is give a shout out to someone that hashad a positive impact on your life, for career, and then part two, a company or brand that delivers a great experience. Okay, you're goingto say, Oh, come on, you can't use that to Shay likeyou know, but an individual is my dad. Totally you can use it. Yes, he I could totally use that. Okay, and you know, a lot of people might say their parents, but you know, Iwill even know my dad has his many set of challenges and even though mydad was a tough father, one thing that is so totally ingrained inside ofme was he was a truck driver and he raised a family of seven asa truck driver. And he always said to me, no matter what youdo in life, you want to be a truck driveryone to be a garbageman, you want to be a brain scientist, you want to be alawyer, you want to be whatever it is, matter what you do,be the best ust at it, be the best at it. And sothat, from a very early, early age, what just instilled in mea drive to I don't need to be better than anybody else, I needto be the best person that I can be at whatever it is that I'mgoing to put my sink my teeth into. I think a lot of us haveforgotten the meaning of what does it mean to be the best at it, and we get to define the best at it, not anybody else.We get to define that, unless, of course, you're in sales andyour quota tells you that you're not doing too good. But we get todefine that and that has had it just a tremendous impact on me as anindividual in terms of how I go after and how I view the world andhow I see things as well. And what was the second part? Acompany, your brand that delivers a great experience for you could be anything.We've had everything. Okay, I came in contact with an amazing little bankby the name of Radius Bank, which was an online bank, right,which was later bought up by lending club. Okay, so this particular brand hashad my heart into yes, this is banking reimagined, right, trulywhat capital one says banking reimagine. I think I think it's a capital onesday. This is banking reimagine. Why? Because I could call anybody in radiusbank before they were acquired. I can call anybody in radius bank tobe able to guess to portal what I needed to be able to make happen. We've had a perfect relationship with them. They know exactly who we are.Anybody can call them. That I have approved. They have a wholesystem down at the total digital online bank. From a business banking perspective, ifyou're not banking with radius, you're crazy. Then they were acquired bya company, by the new lending club. Now I didn't have any experience withthem whatsoever. Then something broke and...

...it was our international wires and,as you know, we have international team members all over the world and ourinternational wires are payroll didn't go through and some of our hopes didn't get itfor three or four days, right for for their payroll, and everybody's heartsaying, Oh my God, it's the company. Okay, you know alot of international books today, but they're not right. Having person, they'rewarning it was everything. Okay, we have enough money, but all thosetides right. So that was four weeks ago. It breaks each everybody wereso sorry, it was a banking error, international transfers, blah, blah,blah. Everything's fine. Two weeks later, next payroll cycle breaks again, and this time it was really bad egg on their face because they hadan international vendor, sorry wire transfer vendor, that basically decided to cut them offand say we're not we're not in this business, to give two weeksto transfer off. They did. They did the transfer. New Provider didn'ttell them that they had to build in this automation and so basically, anybodywho had to set up kind of broke. Now we're on day number three andthis is the second time in a row that essentially, people weren't gettingpaid. And now we're on day three. And then we went to day forone of the people who's always were with us in an amazing way,said I'll get back to you this evening and never did. And at thispoint we had one of our employees which, by the way, unfortunately with Idon't know why, but that has been living paycheck to paycheck in thisparticular country. He hadn't paid his energy bill and the by this fourth day, knock on the door, and so one of our VP's had to login his account and pay it through his account right and that's where I saidenough enough, we can't wait any longer. So I send a note to theCEO and say I've never had to estalate. Never. I can't believethat I am forty seven minutes later the CEO picks up the phone and callsme a lending club and I answer the phone and as I had a feelingit with him and answer the phone and I say thanks for giving me acall back. I'm very much appreciated. How's everything going? It just tryingto create conversation and he says, I'm not well because you're not well.Now, if you if I've walked into this conversation with any level of justlike girl, because I'm so frustrated over this, over people not getting theirtheir paychecks, and then worried about you know. Can I eat? CanI do this? Can write? That immediately eliminated all friction because he westarted the conversation with I'm not well because you're not well. Lending Club leftan amazing brand impression at how they handled the situation up through the CEO postmortem. He got involved, figured out where the broken systems and problems were. Said, I understand everything's going on. I'm going to fix this. Textat me basically an hour later, said here's what's going on. Connect, talk, talk to him fifteen minutes later and he says here's everything,full disclosure, honest. This is what I said. I totally understand.All Right, by tomorrow morning at nine am, I will text you,because I'm San Francisco, east coast time. It'll be twelve o'clock. I willtext you. I'll make sure we have this, this and this andthat. He texts me at nine am, says done deal, everything's fixed,we got it working. Please let me know if we have any problems. And, by the way, I'd love to take you out for somedrinks to apologize for this, because he lives right around the corner for me. Well, what do you know? Right? So that experience, interms of a customer experience, was probably the best one that I can thinkof in a long time, that something from a negative turned into a very, very awesome positive. And, by the way, I'm still a bigfan of radius bank, now owned by lending club. Nice, well done, good button on it too, and that that opportunity to save a badsituation is such a huge opportunity because it's emotionally charged. Typically we get theyou know, the really positive stuff that as the positive emotional charge, butthis negative charge can be turned around because at least people are invested in it. So I love it. That's really well done and well told, asfun to listen to. Mario, we are at time. We are goingto say thank you again for spending time...

...with us. Before we do,where's your people go to follow up on it, besides VENDRESSOCOM? So ifyou're going to reach out to me on Linkedin, Mario Martinez Junior, pleasemake sure you say you heard me with Ethan and Steve on the customer experiencepodcast. Tell me that in a personalized invite on twitter. I'm at Munderscore three JR and Mario Martinez Junior on Linkedin, and that you can reachme there, of course. Van Gressocom with one S, with one sawesome. Thank you so much, thanks, Mari. Thanks guys. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefitsof adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to dowith just a little guidance, so pick up the official book. Rehumanize YourBusiness. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more inorder today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening tothe customer experience podcast. Remember the single most important thing you can do todayis to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning thelatest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, orvisit Bombombcom podcast.

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