The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 128 · 8 months ago

128. Shifting Your Focus to Account-Based Experience (ABX) w/ Jon Miller


Just because someone fills out a form doesn’t mean they’re ready to talk to a salesperson. Two problems stem from this fact: the problem of discerning which leads are ready and the problem of how to nurture the ones that aren’t.

Welcome to the explosion of martec.

In this episode, I interview Jon Miller is Chief Marketing and Product Officer at Demandbase and previously co-founder at Marketo and Engagio, about account-based experience (ABX):

Among the things we talked about were:

- The evangelistic sale

- The analogous relationship between CX and ABX, and B2C and B2B

- Who’s responsible for company culture (not just the CEO)

- MBAs are important for career switchers

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The customer experience is sort of thesum of all the interactions that the customer has with your companythroughout their entire lifecycle. If it's a account, it's he some of all theinteractions the account has at every stage to through their account journey. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host Eten beaute today we're learning from someone who's been out infront of two significant transthat have made a significant impact on customerexperience, marketing, automation and Accoun Base Marketing, but we won'tjust be talking about CX and ABM will also be talking. Abx account basedexperience. Our guest was cofounder at Marquetto, a pioneer and marketingautomation where he was the first CMO and helped build the business to ahundred and fifty million in revenue and a billion dollar plus IPO. He wasalso cofounder and CEO at Engagio, a pioneer in account based marketing,where he led an acquisition by demand base. Today he serves as chiefmarketing and product officer at Demand Base John Miller. Welcome to thecustomer experience podcast Helol, Hello. How are you awesome? Thank youso much for doing this. I've known of you and your work way back when youhired a guy, a friend of mine, DJ Waldo at Marquetto as an early evangelist andso may well talk ovangelism later, but I spoke today with a mutual friend ofours, Brandon Redlinger and he let me know a he says, Hi and B. He says thatyou might have something to tell me about scuba diving. When I say scubadiving to you does do any stories. Products experiences come to mind. Well,yes, because there's a topical thing on this one, so at temand base yeah everyquarter. We do something called Shark Week, which is a week where we have our entire companies just focused on goingto generatin meetings, and so I actually shared a video out withthe whole company just earlier today, of a time when i Wen diving inAustralia at the mainly aquarium in the shark tick, which is your very coolexperience. You like it to go in and like lo you're swimming around W thwith all these sharks, and my wife was down there with my kids and they getsort of be in the aquarium tube. You know so they're watching you, you know, as you kind of u go around,and so there's this one point where you know I'm like spending. Mr More timelooking at my family than I am at the Sharr, because I'm like waving to themand all that kind of thing and there's this video of this twell foot sharkswimming behind me, I'm oblivious to it and like it, justkind of luterally starts, comes over my...

...right shoulder and over my head, likethe like, an imperial star, cruiser or something yeah, and it's like I'm like.Oh, what the hell is that you know- and I missed it so that that that's mydiving story today, it's very top of mind, because Shark Week so funny Ilove this. This image of of p humans on both sides of the glass you knowengaging with each other as if one isn't an exhibit, but it's not clearwho is which thats so good, quick, practicalquestion Shark Week. Setting meetings do who do you bring into that? Like? Doyou bring in people whose job isn't necessarily to set meetings, or is thislike a really fire up for those people that do that work? Whel we try to doacrosspontially, so I mean we create teams and the teams kind of competeagainst each other for as the most meeting so yeah. Obviously strs weremaking meetings, but as as well, then we also have our coun manders likegetting meetings with customers and that kind of thing. This year we evenbrought the customer success team and, where they're competing to see who caninvite or get the most register and signed up for our new advocacy program.So you know we really iand the marketings involved, supporting allthose teams, with kind of reasons, to call reason streeth out things to setUN. So it's a fun kind of week just to kind of get everybody ow a'm done sogood. I love it and I just appreciate all of the customer contact. So, let'sstart where I typically start, which is customer experience when I say thatToyou John, does it mean anything in particular yeah? So I mean obviouslyyou know the customer experience is sort of the sum of all the interactionsthat the customer has with your company throughout their entire lifecycle. Ifit's a an account, it's the SOM of all the interactions the account has atevery stage to through their account journey, and you know as well know thecompanies that kind of deliver the best experience tend to also deliver thebest reveue growths yeah. So do you advocate for a signing customerexperience as a role or a title or a function or a department? Or do youview it is something that's shared by all and kind of fematic or a you know,an organizing principle for work like how do you think about it functionally?I do like having kind of a chief customer officer, you know or some sortof person who overall is accountable for the customers, so I'm going to giveyou a yes and answer and at the same time, that person isn't the one interactingwith the customers y. Ah, and so you need to drive that into kind of everyTyuch of point again abm lens. The first touch I mean, there's the Co, thecontent people are seeing and the marketing the thought leadership thatthey're getting that's part of the account experience. The out reach fromthe SDR has a huge impact on your your account experience. was this somespanning email that, like they're, just like you know, hey, you want to goodget married on the first day, or is this actually something valuable anduseful and educational? So every one of these things you know collectively addup to the count. Experience Yeah so draw that line a little bit accountbased experience or account experience...

...versus customer experiences is justdifferent language. Just based on your go to market. Well, I mean I do thinkit's a b Tob Lens on the traditional customer experience. I mean not notthat the customer experience CX world is all BTOC focused, but I likethrowing the account based Lens on top of it, because CX tends to make people think abouteach individual and while that matters, you also need to think about what isthat kind of roll up together to the account yeah yeah make sense o like itis an evolution on ABM Kay, so we will absolutely get into that either verysoon or in like maybe ten or fifteen minutes. So before we go farther forpeople who aren't familiar, tell us a little bit about demand base a. Why didthe merger or acquisition make sense with Engagio and then second layer kindof like who's, your ideal customer, and what do you sell for them? So Gobanbase is the largest account based platform vendor the Davamage was theoriginal ABM vendor. You know kind of didn't indent the term, but really wasthe first Bendor to say: Hey we're really applying technology to solvethis pomit scale we're also the largest withover seven hundred customers, whichputs is set about easily double the sort of next cosest ou know. Companydemand base historically had been the innovator in. I would call a digitalapproach to ABM wich, all characterize as Domanbis as really good at helpingour customers identify and find the counts that matter and using intent,data which we can talk about to really know well, which of those counts, arein market actually ont salesperson to reach out to them, and then usingadvertising account base advertising to sort of build awareness to the rest,and then, when you do attract into your website, wed personalization to givethem those accounts, kind of more relevant, highly convert Ou know morerelevant musical experience. So that's what really went to man base did standalone and it's Valit was valuable. You know to kind of find te Tra and attractthe count that you really want to go after. I started engagio coming out ofMarquetto with a much more marking, Automation Lens on ABM, which is reallyabout a single view of the account pulling all the touchpoints and all thesignals and all the day, the points you have about the account into a singlepain of glass that been marketing and sales can use to understand the accountand then to use that information to start to orchestrait interactions andcampaigns right so at engage you, we didn't own a champ, we were in the AdChannel. We were 't the email channel. We were the orchestra conductor, thatkind of bade all those cainand campaigns work together and then wemeasured the results. So what's interesting is even though Jamandes engage. You wereboth ABM platforms, almost no...

...functional overat between the two andwhen I sat down with their new sthe demandis is new CEO, Ga Rogal just togover a year ago, and we really talked about here's, what we do and here's ourroadmap and then well here's what we do in our road map. We realize thesechiksoff puzzles just fit together perfectly, so we did merge. Thecompanies move like the wind to deliver a unified platform which we complish infive months, I'm incredibly proud of that accomplishment atds. Now we havethat new demand based on platform, and it is the best of both those things Ijust talked about. We help our customers build an account foundation,so they have a single view of what's happening both on your site out on theopen web and allment Hawt with additional data, and then we helpd themuse predictive analytics to find the CCOUNTS that matter and know who's inmarket maes. The account journey engage with them in an appropriate way.Againdo weeending, where they are on the journey. Different interactions aregoing to be appropriate and then iclose them by working in a very coordinateand fashion with the sales team really smart does it carry is, does it carrybackside to? Does it help, obviously, with account management and thesustained growth within that account? Yeah, I mean it tends to be slightly more revenue focused thansuccess focused, but a big usecase of this is finding pockets for cross onexpansion because you might have a division at a company that is acustomer for product a there might be another buying center at that sameaccount. Who is just actually showing intent for product B, and you knowmaking sure you can aleark the account team about that kind of stuff. There'san interesting use case also around retension and intend dated, even if youhave an account that starts showing intent for one of your competitors.That's a segan alert you should your CSM should know about right away, sothere are definitely usecases across those different pieces, love it so doI'll. Take you up on that offer. You made it a minute ago. Yeah go a littlebit deeper on intent, Dati. What should someone who is just only familiar withit in name, understand about intent, data, its level of validity and you'vealready alluded to some of its use cases. Sure! Well, a good analogy. Imean a lot of markers have gotten used to marking automation the last tenyears, where we're able to track the digital body behavior and we're able tosay hey this. This person is on my website and they opened that email andthey downloaded that white paper and that's all information thow. We cantrack because it's kind of in our own sight in our own world, which is coolbut what's happened in the last five years or so is marketers- have gottentired of getting a phone call every time they download a white paper and they'v sort of gotten savvy aboutit and they're, either not filling out the forms or lying orthey're doing their research out on the... web more than just coming to ourown sight and so intend datais. Really. How do we get some of that visabilityback to that digital body? Behavior, that's happening out on the web. If youwill and fundamentally the way it works is a simple kind of for step process.One. The intent provider needs to get some signal that a person is or tha acookie really is on a webpage and there's different ways. The tenprovider can get access to that data. For example, GTO is a review site, and so they know because people areoften registered on their system. They know who t the person and they know thepage, because it's their own website and to man base. We get our databecause we're connected to the BTT advertising bit stream. So there aretwo million websites at anytime. They show an article to somebody and an atis presented. We're going to get that signal back let' step on is just youget. You get something amount of signal step to is match that signal to thecompany and you don't match it to the person,because that's personally identifiof information, gdpr problems, and'screepy, but you can pretty accurately match it back to the company using ayear ago, the primary Ba whey you do that with a withip address. Now thatwe're all working from home, you do it more through the cookie. It got harderand there's a lot of Daya science involved to try to map individualcookies to to companies, but you do match it up to the COMPANYES STEP TOCEP three: is you understand what the page is about? You know, and sometimesyou can just look at like the keyword content on the page, but not always.Example. I like to use on that. One is just like the keyword lead score. That might be that it's you knowsomebody who really cares about Mark Aunomation and predicting, which leadsHa r, the hottest to go to sales, in my mean who got the most points, O thebasketball game right, and so you need to sort of be a little smarter thanjust looking at keywords and like understand the context of the page andthe nuwoncs which leads us now to step, for which is you have this like Datasetof accounts, looking at topics, and then you throw lots of machinecurking at it, and you figure out first of all baseline patterns, and you say Ha. This account tends toread a lot of content about CIBER security. So if I sell CI recuritysoftware, that's probably a more interesting account to me than one thatdoesn't tend to read a lot about ciper security or maybe that account thatdoesn't read lot about. It still is one I want to go after, but they're justearlier in theire in the process and then the other thing you do is you lookfor spikes and patterns and what we actually, what Demanat does?Is We actually look at the patterns and intent that your opportunities yourcustomers go through? is they lead up... becoming a recognized opportunity bythe sales team and when we see other accounts that show that same pattern,we're able to identify it before they're the opportunity and say this isone you should be paying attention to? We call that a marketing qualifiedaccount. It's like a play on the classic Nql, but o pay you attention tothis one reach out. Then because you know normally people don't want to getcalmed by a salesperson, but there are those magic moments right when they'rethat entering that research cycle, when they actually are open to trelevant outreach, you know and thoes the spikes in the intent data is how you kind of ynow identify those to really that pattern. Matching layer that you add atthe end is Super Super Interesting and obviously for folks wo are listening.This obviously creates a much better experience for people, especially whenyou're reaching out to lend that support. I think you know to the backto the you know: feilling out forms, perhapswith fake information I mean. Not only did we not want, because I was you knowon the receiving end of a lot of that. Not only do we not want to get a phonecall immediately, but oftentimes that you know what was being held behindthat wall. Wasn't that interesting or useful anyway, and so you know overpromise under deliver typestuff, and so this tdisability to forecast interest is very, veryinteresting. Thanks for breaking down those four steps is very helpful and Iwould like to go back. If you don't mind, I would love to go back to twothousand three. Two Thousand Four. You know just before the founding ofMarqetto, like what were you seeing in the world at that time. That said allright, let's go do this, the world needs this, and the world is ready forthis, so I'll punt to two really big factors. The state of markingautomation in that time was that it was all traditional on prime and software.I worked at a company called Epiphany, which was actually the hottest IPO tothe Internet bubble, and this was like three four hundred thousand dollarsoftware companie would buy and then they spend at least that much t withexcensure to get it implemented, and that was what people did when theyneeded marketing techology and frankly, as a result of that, Marcec never tookoff because most cfos think of marketing as a coscenter, and you don't typically do big capital investments like I justdescribed into cal centers, and so it was very hard for marketers, say hey:Let's do this big investment, you n for you know for for me. The flipside, though, is marketing hasvery large opex budgets discretionary dollars. You know they can drop. Fiftygrand on a trade show pretty easily and so right around this time, Soffar as aservice was becoming mainstream, and that was really honestly a huge unlockfor marketing because it allowed vendors like Marquetto to come on boardand say we're going to give you this powerful enterprise class software thatyou might have spent threhundred Zand...

...dollars for, but we're going to. Letyou buy it as easily as you buy Google adwards and that that was a real justunlock on the business model. The other big thing that was going onis that again, in his time frame, margarets were just really beginning togenerate online leads of scale. Remember, Google adwards only lost intwo thousand and two, and so Marcet is obvieusly for t I mean, for the firsttime we're starting to kind of be exposed ot this problem of how do I capture these leads that I'mgenerating off with these google clicks and other things? I need a place to putthem Owen by the way. Just because somebodyfell out, my form doesn't mean theyr Ra talk to the sais person. So how do Iidentify the ones that are good and how do what? How do I nurch do somethingwith the rest and not just drop them on the floor, and so those two things cametogether: A business problem of needing to sort of manage these leads and aneconomic model that let markers by it. That was the really cause exposion inMartek, really interesting. That shift to to a an operating expense ratherthan a capital expense, really good, makes perfect sense and, of course, theopportunity at the time how for better end or for worse, where are we withmarketing automation? How is it evolved end or how is it been stagnant? Well,you know I mean market and we DONTV our markeimation around the lead. You knowand that's something that you know I talked earlier about. Yeah people werecond of gederating. All these leads and we built it with model that was very focused on marketing, almost doing a baton, handoff to the sales team. I generate the lead I's ready to go here, you go andthen actually we built a feature in Marcetta which, when sales took theToket, we would turn off the marketit to that person, because sames didn'twant US marketing to to their deals, so that bottle has been grained in thetechnology and is also very folcus on new new loco acquisition and that'shard stuff to evolve out away from. I mean that's deeply embedded in theproduct in the way it works and all that kind of stuff, and that's ultimatewhat it' part of what led to the opportunity for all these new accountbase vendors. I tried to do abm back at Marcetto, with a Texsak of the Marqettoput sales forse and we had good results, but it was really hard. I mean I mademy team kind of crazy with just literally all the contortions we had todo to try to make it work. Yeah. I love it. You you already started answeringwhere I wanted to go next, which is you know, FLASH FORWARD TO TWO THOUSANDNDTHIRTEEN tosandand fourteen? What were you seeing in the world at thetime? That said all right now is the time for a an offering like in Engageoyou've already previewed it a little bit but feel free to take another stepdeeper into that. Well again, it was. It was one of the things where, like Icould see, that ABM was starting to become a term out in the marketplace.You know it was very early of the...

...conversations going demand base tatjust starting to get some traction. Finally talking about about the concept,and then I replied that to the fact that I had the business challenge, I was trying to do it, but it was hardso glarly, there's Om, there's some opportunity to kind of go in anddistrupt a space. Interestingly, I was the only one. Terman is got startedaround the same time, and so you sort of almost saw this whole move of peoplewho came from the Marky automation industry, moving to STAR ABM companies,all in two thousand and fifteen, and that kind of I think, led to theexplosion of the virtual circle of benders. Talking about it, cusmersexcited morventers, talk about it, customers get mare, excited and boom arwe are five years later yeah and I love it Obvo. Obviously it was a oppressingneed. I mean you already explained it. I've heard so many really good originstories that are based in I had this problem I needted to solve it, and Irealized that everyone else had or enough people had the same problem thatI could you know commercialize it. Another area of interest is for me. Youknow talk about generically. The term islike an evangelistic sale right. So when you're pioneering in a new space,you already mentioned that you know tha, the buzz was getting around but there'sa point at which you're either solving a new problem or you're solving afamiliar problem in a new way. That requires some level of evangelism.Where you know the marketing process. Ind. The sales process is as much aboutcreating awareness and understanding of the problem, not just the solution. Adid you experience that you know in the early stages of Marquetto and ENGAGIOand B. What is the transition point like? When did you feel like okay, themarket understands what we're doing now, so we can change our sales in marketinglanguage or process like when. Do you recognize that people are coming to youin a way where they clearly understand the home? And I'm asking this in asomewhat selfinterested way. You know at Bombam we make it easy to record andsend video messages in a variety of platforms and circumstances, and youknow we're somewhere in that transition where enough people understand what'sgoing on, but they're still not clear that what I'm doing today, I should maybe change that a little bitso like I just assume that you experience similar being so early kindof in both of those categories. What would you say about evangelism and theevangelistic sale? Well, I think first off I want tat, have a Nack for it,because I've only done it twice, but at least twice. You know I've sort of beensuccessful at kind of timing, a category right when it seems to kind of be hitting thatinflection point. So I don't feel like either Markin, mation or ABM, that Iinvented it or I advantagelize it on my own. I think we' just kind of got inthere right when there was a you know, whin both casesthere was another comp, bigger company already talked me about it and o Looquate. Talking about Mark Animation, Demand Base talking about ABM, but Iwas able to co in and sort of Mabe. I helped to kind of define and own itmyself, which would have got amplified... some other. Also people talkingabout it. So if you can find that that's a really good timeplace to bebecause lot less heavylifting than doing yourself and in both cases thething that really was the unlock for me was just trying to sort of be thedecinitive source of thought leadership. Content for the con for the concept, Iliterally an Marchedo. I wrote the definitive guide to Markitg outovationand engage you. I wrote the clear and complete guide to Account BaseMarketing hundred and seventy five pages. I think anybody read it knewthat this is a marketing floss. This is whers. The form fell out, because thisis really good, you Noy, and that thought teyearship really. I think kindof helped to sort of establish the connection. Yeah really good, a littlebit of a change up here. You know you've been early in companies thathave experienced significant growth. What did you try to do as a leader inthose organizations like from a cultural standpoint and one of thethings that emerged immediately in the theme of this show? And I don't knowwhat number this will be like undred and twenty eight or something like that?A theme that emerged early in this podcast was the relationship betweenemployee experience and customer experience, and obviously, internalculture is something that our customers experience with and through us in avariety of different ways, some of them more tangible than others. But what aresome things you looked for early on to form the type of culture that youthought would be helpful for the organization and or in growth. What didyou do to preserve? What was good about the early culture? I've always said:Morqetto was successful, despiter culture, not because of it. You knowand are kind of we honestly did not spend enough time thinking aboutculture. We just happend to have a really really good product in a reallygood category and that sort of solved a lot ofproblems and engage. You, though, I sort of took that lesson. I was veryintentional about the culture I mean Brian, my cofounded. I we laid outthree sets of core values before we even incorporated the company, and Imade sure to talk about them at every company meeting. You know because eKindof, all the classic stuff, but the point is took it seriously. I no thingthat we did very reat early on is we made culture, everybody's problem andnot just mine as a se, we actually created these culturecommittees and we had one group who worked on literally. How are you goingto pay people? I cal promote people in another group that worked on parks andanother group that worked on an hiring practices and everybody felt part ofpart of the culture because they were really helping to crind a craft andbuild it, and we kept that concept kind of all. The way through, as we sort ofbuilt, bilt increw, the company, those are Deinitely Kon, ody, some kind ofkey things. I pointed to really good. We ended up forming crossfunctionalteams voluntary basis around a few key themes before we even had any versionof HR here at Bombam, and then we ended up holding on to it for a lot of thesame reasons that you described, and I think it rotates every six months andthen so you get these like interesting...

...blends of people solving problems and,to your point, I think, failing to address them. Stop theanswer. Assigning them to some some specific HR type of function. Isn't theanswer right. I love this employee engagement, peace of it, especially forthe crossfunctional benefits where different team members get to knowpeople from other teams. I would be remisse if I didn't ask a quick driveby on this intersection of chief marketing officer and chief productofficer is certainly a title ive not hosted on the show before I can seejust looking at. At your background, I see how they intersect, but how did youand the executive team at Demand Bay say? You know what yeah let's putmarketing and product together with John Sure? Well I mean partly it's like I. I was running product and youknow the biggest post. Important thing we had to do is the company was bringthe two patforms together, so we did that we accomplished it and then Ithink what we realize is a leadership team is great. We've got the best partof in the category. Now we got to tell the world about it, and so a little bitis like all right. Give me the ball. You know, I know how to market thething so parnly IAS. Just me saying I want marketing to, but I think thething that makes it unique for coming like a man base. IS WE SOL marketing software right? It'smarking Parby for marketer, so I get to be my customer and and that that intersection kind ofcombining my marketg experience and th my product experience as a user as adeveloper and all that it does create some gery positive inergies. It's alittle bit unique to kind of our situation and- and I will also say it'sreally hard- you Knowso, I'm not sure, we'll see howlong it lasts to it's. Definitely a challenge to sort of be running twodepartments: Yeah! Is it a lot of hat? Switching like like focus has to okay,I'm going to stop doing this and focus on this yeah and just a lot of mannersjust to hire and a lot of pee O now, teams to build and all that kind ofstuff so but fun, I'm really enjoying it cool. Okay, you graduated magnacumlaud with a physics degree from Harvard you're in the tap ten percent of yourNBA class at Stanford. I would love a quick take from you on the value ofhigher education, for a variety of reasons. I feel like it's kind ofculturally under assault, but I expect that you would say something like itserved you well. I just love any any thoughts you have on the value ofhigher education in today's environment. Well, I don't regret the sort ofphysics, undergrage intergraduate degree. You know that quantitative,analytical research has or mindset, I think, as has served me well even as amarketer, which most people tend to think of, is a creative profession,marketing s alt Ar and science, and I think, that's sort of been been reallyreally essential. You know and then for the NBA everybody's going to say this,but the values in the network, the people you Neid, the contact I've beenable to you know: that's that's even...

...more important than anything youactually learn in the classroom, yeah very good yeah. I enjoyed my MBAexperience as well. The one thing I will say about the MBA in particularwas that, although I can't say I learned this one thing, it gave me abroader respect for kind of the seats at the table at it. Almost any kind ofleadership table you'd find yourself at one other thing in quickly say at leastabout an NBA. Is it's really important for people want to switch creers ifyou're in retail, you know, but you really want to get into banking, likeyou probably aren't going to be able to do that very easily, but you can do agraduating fromnda program, so really keep for creer switchips great bonustip there, and if anyone is curious about an NBA experience, I only haveone myself and it's not as probably as rigorous as your own, but feel free toemail me ethen at Bombomcom, and and ask about that. If you are listening atthis point, I've got two other episodes that I know. You'll enjoy episode.Ninety nine with Ean Lock, who is the VP global marketing at a company calledCustomer Gauge, and the reason that one came to mind when I was thinking aboutyou John, was that we talked a lot about the evolution of NPS to monetizedNPS, to account experience and account sentiment in this idea of moving fromthe individual view and an NPS to an actionable. You know revenue orientedtreatment of NPS to this whole kind of account sentiment account experience,idea that was episode, ninety nine with e and luck and then much much earlierepisode. Nineteen with David Cancel, who is the founder of multiplecompanies, including drift, like you, he's a chief product officer, hes chiefproduct as a officer a hub spot for a spell, and we talked quite a bit aboutkind of broader trends, as we did a little bit here too, and that one wascalled why customer experience is the only different eater left that wasepisode. Nineteen John, before I let you go, and I so appreciate your timewith me and with listeners, I'd love to give you two opportunities. The firstis to thank or mention a person, who's had a positive impact on your life oryour career, and the second is to give a nod or a shoutout or a mention to acompany that you appreciate for the experience they give you as a customersure so I'll get the shout out actually to my high school journalism, teacherNiccarantinus, but e partally passed away a few years. So Ye won't be ableto hear this I sort of mentioned. I didn't regret my physics background,because excuse me to quantitative, you know, side of marketing, but anotherthings o hugely important for me is a marketer is by ability communicatingright and Nick taught me how to write so that T. I really really appreciatethat terms of coming with a kind of great cousfer experience. I actuallywant to give a Chog to my wife's business she's a online shoe retailercompanies called bells and becks Teaboart choos from Italy that are verykind of wearablue. If you read the reviews that she gets on our site, halfthem are out. The shoes have her about the experience and I think it'. It'sinteresting for me is observer to just really see how how well just givingpeople this amazing experience. You...

...know. High Customer Service reallymakes people loyal to the brand, so small business, it's easier for mallbusinesses, some cases by proof that it really works yeah. I really appreciateboth of those very much you're not going to write a hundred and seventyfour page definitive guide without a strong communication foundation.Specifically, writing- and I agree- I think one of the neat things about. Idon't know the scale of your wife's business at this point, but what you learn from all of that directcontact and generating those first ten five star glowing reviews is thefoundation for any kind of scale or growth. I meanthat that direct communication, where you truly feel people's pain at anindividual level, and these types of things, is without that. My suggestion here is a lot of peoplescale things way too early before they have enough really direct customercontact and empathy and understanding and really earning earning that repeatbusiness in the beginning in a nonscalable ways is the foundation forlong term. Success Well said, thank you, hi, and thank you so much for your timehere, Hey. How can someone follow up with you or with demand base, or maybeorder shoes from your wife, where some fot to wear some sites or places thatyou would send people to follow up on this conversation? John Yeah, so I meandefinitely you learned about the manbase on our site. We have someonline demos that are really awesome. If you have, you know, one of dig andmore betst way, probably find me as on Lingdin John Miller, to and shoole me amessage and yeah all some awesome. Italian shoes are at bells and beckscomawesome exactly as it spelled. Yeah cool sounds good thanks. So much have agreat afternoon and thanks for sharing your experience with us tecar clearcommunication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of thebenefits of adding video to the messages your sending every day. It'seasy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book,Rehumanize Your Business, how personal videos, accelerate sales and improvecustomer experience learn more in order today at Bombamcom Boock, that's Bo, MB,vombcom fuck. Thanks for listening to the customer experience, podcastremember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create anddeliver a better experience for your customers, continue learning the lateststrategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcastplayer, or visit Bombomcom podcast.

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