The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 126 · 8 months ago

126. The Role of Kindness in Your Company w/ Cole Baker-Bagwell


Not only is kindness important on a human level, but it can become a core value for any company. How?

In this episode, I interview Cole Baker-Bagwell is Founder and Chief Kindness Advisor at Cool Audrey, about how and why to turn kindness into a core company value.

Cole talked with me about:

- The cashmere effect in customer experience

- The business case for kindness (it’s very strong)

- Mindfulness and intention in business & its customer impact

- An answer to the outcome-oriented skeptics

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Cole’s podcast is Kindness Think Tank

- She mentioned Said Ziouani and Whereby 

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I help people do not only remindthemselves that kindness is very important, try to understand where Cbecome a corte value potentially for their company, but then that's notenough. I strive to help them create tienes of evidence around that corevalue system. The single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,learn how sales marketing and customer success experts create internalalignment, achieve desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in apersonal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here'syour host, ethen Baute, hey it's ethen, a host of the show, and I want to takea quick minute off the top something I've never done in more than a hundredtwenty episodes of this show to make a quick apology to you the listener intomy amazing guest, colbaker Bagwell, who talks kindness as a business strategy.In this conversation, my microphone was a little bit overdriven when werecorded it, it is below my standards. I want to give you better. Iconsistently give you better, but this conversation was so good. You can'trecreate these things. They just happen in the moment, and so I wanted to askyour patiente and forgiveness right off the top you're going to love this one,here's the intro as a business, professional and revenueleader. You want to drive innovation, growth and loyalty to do so. You mustincrease engagement, connection and trust what', one commonly overlookedopportunity to do this, bringing more kindness into your business. Yes,kindness, that is the mission of today's guest. She spent a decade insoftware sales before becoming founder and chief kindness officer at CoolAudrey, she's, a blend of business, strategist, mindfulness practitionerand Yogi. I learned about her when a team mate of mine, Abombam, Laura Aberattended one of her webbinars and told me about the experience from thatmoment. I knew I needed to make this conversation happen. It's happeningright now: Cold Baker, bagwell welcome to the customer experience podcast!Thank you. I am so happy to be here with you thanks for asking me to joinyou yeah. I love what you're up to. I think this is important, conversaationspecific to the way we work with our tea members and the way that we workwith our customers bu before we get into kindness, practically speaking,kindness as a business strategy. I'd love for your take on customerexperience when I say that what does that mean to you customer experiences to me even andthanks for the question, it is really all of the moments from from star tofinish that a client might have in working with a particular company thatthey've chosen to and trust their business to, but we can also back up alittle bit and think about customer experience as something that beginseven before that moment starts. So you know how is the team preparing to meetthat customer and iner that client I like to come and play its in that way?How are they, how are they preparing to to meet them externally and that's thekind of stuff that bubbles up on the inside of the walls to go outside intothe world? And then you know at the end of that cycle, like we have all thesebeautiful moments in between, but at the end of that cycle to me, when Iwork with folks, I want them to walk away from me and feel, like you know, Ihave this Sayime, the caser effect feel like they have cashinor wrapped aroundthem, so in something lasting and vhis Eral and beautiful that keeps themcoming back because they've been you know, they've been seen and they'vebeen engaged in a way that makes them really feel something. So that's that's.I guess he summary I what it neans to me two things. I especially liked oneti idea of insigde out this idea that a fantastic or remarkable or supportiveemployee experience is a necessary precursor to a great customerexperience and that's something that we... about regularly here, but I alsolike where you went with the kind of the sensational kind of this feelingaspect of it to that. It's not just what we think and say, but it's alsothe feelings that beget those thoughts and feelings. We will go deep intokindness, but just as a quick drive by here, what is the wole of kindness incustomer experience? Oh Wow, it's everything. So let me start by sayingthat I don't define kindness. Is this in the way that a lot of people do inour culture here in the United States? You know it's sort of been a forgottenthing, but to me practical kind, ess related to Tustomer experience looks Itake so many different shatse than one of those shate says Doa, my servingwhat am I doing through that work, and why does it matter for them? And so, ifyou start from that place of, why does it matter for them and really try tounderstand what your role is and that as a potential business partner? Ithink that that little salt, small and CIPIL place because to become a launchpad or proper intention and proper attention and than all of the actionsthat will follow all of the words that will follow right. So so that's kind ofmy my biggest belief about that. I love it. It reminds me of customercentricity or even Human Centricity, where, before we begin any activitybefore he, we execute anything or we do anything at all that we think firstabout who it's for who it's with and that orientation toward the personbefore we ever take a single step or write a single word or start recordingthe video or whatever we're doing, makes all of the difference, and- and Iappreciate the way you position that it's like it is a kindness I think, toyourself and to the other person to consider their needs. Their wants theirsituation prior to undertaking the activity at all and you're, going towind up with a better outcome. As a result, yeah absolutely will- and youknow I draw from three main ideas when I think aboutkindness I draw from- and they are uther all relative to customerexperience. The first idea is the fourteen century. Definition ofkindness is noble deeds and courtesy enough sad there, nople deed andcourtesy. The second definition draws from my experience, as you know, apractitionerview of an mindfulness for the last, almost twenty seven years,I'm kind of dating myself, but twenty seven years and there's a rule. Thefirst rule of yods is to do no harm nonviolence, and so it's called itHinza and and to me that is really the embodiment of the definition ofkindness for for this human anyway, that's what I'm trying to take into theworld, but then there's another aspect about and that other aspect is around.Where does it come from and it's something that marries intention andcompassion and then there it is so it's Hart in mind marry. So I think when youknow we don't think about business in that way toplet, but we really should,because that's the biggest opportunity for us to create the relationships, thepartnerships that trust that feeling that visible feeling that holds up deepinside of somebody, someone in stays with them. Even after you know, maybethat conversation is it or that transaction has happened, sin somethingreally really. Last you and that's the impact of Primis there yeah what anovelty the idea of reaching out to hol e people as opposed to the rationalcreatures. We pretend we are before we get too much further I'd love for youto just to give a quick drive by and cool audrey like whois, your ideacustomer. What problem are you solving for them? Tell us a little bit aboutwhat you're doing well, the simplest way to define what I'm doing is I'mhelping people in business realize and and grasp kindnesses of core competencyso develop. Kindness is a core confidency for business, because youknow I spent years studying the research behind kiness, which soundskind of funny, but there actually is a lot of data and I think about youknowthings like the very simplest thing, that kind of helps people foster trustand that trust helps them collaborate, and I mean if we think about that,those three things. Of course they line...

...up perfectly, but it's something that'svery absent or overnlooked in most business, because people are concernedabout the outcomes at business more than how we get there. So so I helppeople do not only remind themselves that kindness is very important, try tounderstand where it could become a core value potentially for their company,but then that's not enough. I strive to help them create thanes of evidencearound that core value system. You know, how are we making decisions? How are wecreating policies and processes? How are we hiring people? How are weengaging with our customers? How are we creating products? How are we creatingmessaging and customer experience and so where's our attention in all ofthese, these different areas? So that is, you know something that reallyshould be a coure compinency, I think, in every single business, but at thehighest level. That's what I'm trying to do through the work with cool adrein a client engagement. Give us just take this one layer, more practical.What are a couple things that you've maybe helped a team or company do withregard to increasing kindness within their own internal culture andprocesses, and maybe one externally with customers and then maybe go, maybefeel a little bit abstract. But but if you've done any of this work, I'm superinterested to and how kindness plays when it's not in a human to humanexchange, for example, a manager and direct report, engagement orconversation or a salesperson in a potential customer conversation. Butkindness and perhaps use your experience or you know the productexperience Tis kind of thing where it's the customers, interacting with thecompany, but through a vehicle or a medium like is, can we express kindessthat way so anyway? There's three questions in one? Maybe the internalexample, maybe an exturtle example, then maybe a product or user experienceexample. If, if you have them sure so so a really good example of workinginternally with a client I was talking abouth and I wrote about this recently-was having a conversation with the CEO and- and this was really theconversation. The goal of it was to help him understand why kindness couldreally help change the business and so he's busy right he's, got shareholdersto report to and revenue to create an all of the competitive marketplace andall of those things that we know our true an business, and he said you knowcold kindness is nice, but I'm concerned about revenue, I'm concernedabout market chear, and I said well, let's think about that, for a minute Isaid. So how do you make money? He said? Well, we sell products. I said: Okay,yeah, you sell prodic. So so how do you? How do you create the products that yousell? I said well, people Creatte, that my said. Okay people create yourprodects. So do those people need to be able to collaborate say to bettercreate the products that you're sending out N to the world? Well sure I saidokay, so that was kind of Liele moment number one light ball. Moman number twocame oup when I said well, who do you? How do you get the word out about yourproducts? Oh well, we create marketing campaigns and messaging, and I saidwell, who does that? Will people do that? Well, who are they creating themessaging for they're, creaty messaging for other people, and I said, and what,if they forget that there that's the reason that they're of creating themessaging it's not just to sell your product, it's actually helped Solf, aproblem that other people might have. That was moment. Number two and themoment number three came when I said so: How does the actual product get intothe marketplace? He said all my sales people take it out there and I said:Well what do they have to do to get a meeting with that customer? He said:Well, you know they send emails. They said by the way he maybe a candidatefor for bomomrahe said they send emails. They send text messages you got to getleaves the Stanard kind of thing. I said. Okay, so that gets them in thedooring. Maybe there's an implied interest that the customer might havein your potential. You know in your predect, potentially o help themselve aproblem. WHAT GETS THEM INVITED BACK? LICELLED mement number three, so mywhole discussion win. Her was unless Youre people are meeting your customerswith the right intention, they're...

...designing those products with the withthe people that they're serving first and in mind, not the money trained bat,the people trained. First, then you're not going to be able to maximize yourrevenue potential, your market, your potential, your reach. You know yourawareness campains, it just won't matter because, essentially you arecreating inside of a vacuum. So in that case I was able to start working withteams within the company to help them collaborate. I noticed you knowbehaviors that were coming up within the teams you Ko people would smile to oneanother spaces and pull me to the side and say you know that guy's ill hold tocall- and I said, Wel hold on now, let's kind of think about that a littlebit, so I workd with these teams and taught them how in that moment, wherethey have the thought that creeps in this guy's a jerk or I've, been downthis road before I know what they're going to say, let's pause there, let'spause at the thought and figure out what's driving it you know, is it ego?Is it agemda is a bias, all sort of things that are absent of kindness,let's think about. How can we get a hold of those thoughts before theybecome words, because those words are going to create some sort of rippleeffect too, and then, by the way, those thoughts are also going to drive theactions that you take the decisions that you make so so by the end of aboutsix months, I did a survey the beginning and the survey at the endwith with these teams and what I realized at the end and in these wereteams that were cross, collaborating as well or supposed to cross collaborate.What I found out from beginning to end is that it did make a difference thatcreating awareness of how they were moving through the world enabled themto be kinder, and that kind ess created wore trusting collaboration and by theway it didn't just affect the teams internally. They took that out to thecustomers and it increased engagement with their clients as well. So I thinkI answered two of your questions there about internal and external, but it wasso. It was so powerful in this instance that the customer started calling theperson who was my plint and seeing teach us how you work. We want to workmore like this. We Love the way your teams interact. So that's that's hugewhen you think about customer experience and really going from vendorto partner it's such a big, big differentiator with respect to aproduct. I will tell you that in two thousand and fourteen I was veryfortunate to be part of a tect startup, and I was you know like in the Tentisnumber, twenty three that was highed there and the thing that was so coolabout it was that the product was awesome. It was created by a guy tosolve a problem he was having. But what happened was it actually ended upseling? So many other people in the world were having the exagiame problemto solv their groing to, and so because we were all hired for kindness, firstbelieve it or not by our CEO number, one core value les to be kind, and maninpermeated through our walls inside in influenced the way that we madedecisions o the way the engineering team made decisions around productdevelopment. You Know Innovation Pass that they term and it totally changedthe way that we met our plients on the outside too, but it only made adifference because of what we cultivated inside our walls, but itreally did that Ethas hould be kind, really influenced you know it messaging.You know it was automation for the people very much like the the messagingof your company was. It was all about humans. It was all about hewbeinghumans, relee, a burden that they had and and that really state at theforefront. So I believe that that ethus of kindness influenced all of thosethings yeah. I believe that it did too, and you actually answered all threekind of in the first past, but I appreciate you kind of like doublingback into that into that last paster, because when we can think this way andbe this intentional, I think what we're starting to do then, is an Informa light weight version ofhuman center design. So I can see how this perspective would immediately becaptured or lead to some of the best kind of leading questions before aproduct is designed or released. I can see how it could come through in theexperience simply by being in internal...

...cultural element. You mentionedsomething that I think is really important, because I think it slows alot of people down or I think it's one of those road blocks for people. Thaare a little bit skeptical or a little bit hardcore or a little bit focused onthe outcome rather than the precusors to the outcome. You know instead oflike letting the outcome happen, because we did everything else theright way, which is kind of my default. Some people just really like to controlthat outcomean and at some point thet ends justify the means, and we maybeforget some of the collateral damage or just ignore it or whatever the key word.There is intentional, like this idea of stopping pausing being conscious,because you know most of our decisions are made. The vast vast majority, likeninety five percent of them, ere made subconsciously, there's a periodbetween when we say I like what coal is saying, and this is now a habit for meand an in in those early stages. It does require this conscious thought itdoes require this pause. It does require this reflection. Why might shehave said it that way? Why do I feel this way about what he said? Thesekinds of things does that ever go away, or is this a key fundamental part ofbeing mindful and is it it isn't necessary part of being kind? Do wealways need to take this extra step or make this extra pausees that just partof the process- or you know, once we're kind of in this zone and we've beenrewarded, and so we continue to do the behavior and it's everything coldpromised me. It would be. My work life is better. My customer engagement isbetter. All these things are better. Does that fade or or do we always needto create this moment of reflection? Is that inherent to the process? That's areally good question Eten and I think it's a little bit f above in mypersonal experience, so I'll just talk about m this human here, because it'sprobably a little different for everyone right, but I you know, as Imentioned, have been practicing mindfulness for nearly twenty sevenyears now, and I still catch myself in moments that you know I am telln what Icall it moments where my goodness is challenged so, but I feel it I can feelit in my in my body. I can feel it in my mind. So what it? How it shows upfor me is I get kind of cold, because it's my nervous system, kind of saying,weareing a bad spot here. My my brain kind of I coald hear the little tinyboys on my shoulder. That wants to jump up and down and say something: That'snot going to be kind. It's not going to be a response, it's going to be areaction, and so I still have those moments now, so I still have topractice exactly what I'm preaching, which is we have to slow down. We haveto listen objectively right, and that comes from being aware of WHO's incharge of your show is an ego is that you know I need this. I need that is itagenda where we've got to accomplish this thing to bring in this muchrevenue create this. You know this client base get this product inovatedor is it a comnant advice that you have, and so every single one of us has thesethings it's a matter of how do we choose to Tam them and we can onlybegin to came them when we become aware of them, and so you know I still havemoments. It just happened yesterday. As a matter of fact, I was on a phone callith somebody, and it was a friend of mine asking for help and I was offeringhelp, and you know she asked give me tell me what to do. Give me some adviceand when I offered her the advice I was met with. Well, you don't understandthis and you don't understand that and I fount myself kind of you know thatlittle that little voice jumping up and down. So I had to go on you and take afew breaths and say what's in charge you, why am I feeling this way and thenI was able to reengage and not too harm? I was able to reengage in very kind andmeasured way and Responde, so that takes practice and what we're talkingabout there is. I talk about developing kindnesses of corcompetency ten. Thisis what it goes back to from a from a biological standpoint.What we're doing is we are creating new neural pathways, and so I equate themto you know roads right. If you have an...

...old bumby road, every single time youdrive down at your tire gins the pot hole and you've got to repear the tire,because you get a hole in the tire, and you know you get the you get the bubbyfeeling and the steering wheel. You have two choicees, you can either keepdriving down that road or you can choose a new road that has better paingit and so neuro pathlish can be thought of. In that same way. You know if we'vegotten into a habit of reaction and we've got into a habit of feeding egofeeding the agenda feeding the bias. Then that's the road, that's that roadwith the Bubby pucples that we've talked about. So in that moment it'scomes down to choice. Are we going to make the choice to quite literally paveand open a new road, and if we do that it becomes easier overtime to Mukethose choices with consistency becomes easier and practice, but it's just likeanything else. It's you know it's not a lights which you're going to flip onenough. It's always going to require attention and intention, and that'swhere the awareness becomes so important, Gosh. My fear is that thesame person that is oriented toward outcome scale agenda is a really greatword. This idea that, well you know I need to get Xy Andz done by such andsuch a day or a time that that personality type probably doesn't havethe patience to get off the road or even to know that they're on the wrongwan. I assume that you've worked with people that are that way like. I wouldassume that when you're in a room with say ten people there are at least threeor four of that personality type and that's the person I'm trying to reachhere I feel, like you know, people have already oriented this way like yeah, Ilike what she's saying and perhaps hopefully people are still listening ifthey don't, even if they dop'e buy in yet because their cares of were goingto get there. But, like you know, what do you do with those those types of folks? Is there adifferent approach like if I am personally, if I want to spread thismessage internally? How do you reach that person? So I think there are acouple of different ways. So let me tell you about an experience I hadabout a year and a half ago, so I was in working with a client and then agroup of ten people, I'm more realistically have one or two who aresort of tracking in that mindset. The other ones are really excited aboutbeing there because they're l Koh, my company, is investing in somethingthat's about me. So that's really interesting. For me as well- and theyknow it's not training, they know it's something, that's deeper and that itcame from a place of caring about the people. So so that's what gets like theeight out of the ten people on board and then ther are the two sitting therelike arms folded. You know shoulders up to their ears and and theyre they're,not in at all the eyebrowser throat and in one instance I invited thos coupleof people to leave. I said that this doesn't speak to you and you are justreally I'm not so MYC Jotetusior, it's your out to you, know, take thisinformation in that I'm sharing, and then you make a choice for yourself,but if you're already, if you'v decided you're not going to make that chice,you can just get up and leave and there are no hard feelings. In fact, I'llhunk you on the way out, they stayed, which was also curious, and so whathappened was from the first survey that I did with that vot till the last thosetwo people- and I remember getting these survey results back and it wasjust before Christmas that year and about two two weeks before and I readit ethen and I knew exactly who wrote the responses, even though it was ananom, an anoninous survey, because they told me they emailed to tell me and tothank me and here's what they said. They said you know when I first engagedind all of this work around developing kindness and mindfulness of these courtcomfidencies. For my business. I thought it was a load of you know whathorse mockey. Well, just call it forse Tocky, but they said Col. I really wantto thank you because I did decide to trust you. I did decide to make thatchoice, because you presented enough business evidence to me that convincedme that it was for the shark and not only did it change my business, itchanged my family. It changed my relationships at home with my friendsand otherwise it changed the way I feel about myself. So I would say that you know there's allkinds of data out there. Even there is, you know, Gartner did a survey to showthat US companies alone lose about a...

...trmillion dollars in year due tovolunteary turnever. Fifty two percent of that can be avoided if people juststart communicating in a different way and start seeing one another in adifferent way and kindess is the root of that, because thet again fostershelps. People Foster Trust that helps them collaborate and when you have thatyou have engagement and so you're shipping away o fifty two percent. Sothere's a big dollar figue for the people who are concerned about revenueand and operate uprading cause think about the trillion dollars. The otherthing the Gartner says, as for every single one of those people that leavesthat it's going to cost you soper a company of a hundred people wherethey're making about fifty grand average salary pror each that thatperson, that cost of replacing that one person is going to be anywhere fromabout six hundred K to two million bucks, because it's not just anothergetting another body and it's the stories, it's the training, it's thetime, it's the relationship since the revenue generations. All of thesethings. So you know I've got plenty of business datthat we can put out. Thereare plenty of numbers that I coun share with a one. I do to help themunderstand that this thing that we're talking about here, developing kindness,developing awarenies, inherently they cost you nothing to do that. It costyou nothing more than a choice in some intention. It cost the company,something to say yeah. We need to Reexamin our values and, yes, we needto be more intentional about the communications we're sending and themarketing were sending and the way that we're developing products in the waythat we're reading customers and the way that we hire. Yes, we need toexamine these things and so there's an investment there. And, yes, we need toget enough of the court compidency throughout our DNA that we can begin tosustain ourselves. So there's some investment on the front side. But ifyou think about from a human standpoint, just in day today, life kind, ISS, anawareness cost us absolutely Zulch, nothing but a choice. And so you knowthat's that's a pretty beautiful part about the whole Messageis that day today, and it really does start with each and every one of us like you, and I canhang up this phone call. I can already tell your super kind of nor person, butif you were one of those people on your team that had opportunity, if you wereone of them, you would have also the opportunity to make a choice and sayI'm going to try it out today, I'm going to just try to meet somebody withthe same level of awareness. Maybe it's somebody WHO's super irritating for youat work or bubbles up that bad stuff inside that tiny little voice, I'mgoing to try meeting them in a different way. I'm going to tryresponding, I'm just surprising and see what happens and then with every singlepositive bit of apfirmation you get or response you get. It becomes this verycontagious thing that flows outward from the inside. So that's what I wouldsay mean we can talk nubers all day long, but what we're really talkingabout is the the fact that you mentioned t at beginning human being tobusiness. Companies are collections of people and they're selling to otherpeople and creating for other people, and- and I think that's the biggestpoint of opportunity here- is that a lot of people have forgotten that theythink they consider people and outcomes to be different. We have to startremembering that they're, not outcomes are not possible without people and theoutcomes will be dictated. You know good, Boud and ugly, whatever it is bythe way the people engage and show up and meet the world. So you know we cantalk about. philosophically we can talk about the psychology. We can talk aboutthe hardcore data like numbers, whatever you want, but it all points tothe same thing that we need to get wore humid about the business that we do andkindness is ha way that that really connects kindess is a is a force thatreally connects people. We all intuitively know even the most kind ofhardcore Badass type, a people that are that are maybe very egodriven and or aDagenda, driven and or bias blind, not that that is the not that those arecharacteristic or necessary to a type. A person I'm just speaking verygenerically, the petal to the metal, hardcore Ford, Ford forward person,even that person knows intuitively, that this is right, that what you'resaying is true- and I think the most valuable illustration of that- is thisidea- that these these people, who are...

...skeptical in the beginning, say thisdidn't just change my work. It changed my family life and change. My personallife at cheating me change. The way I feel about myself is just it's so bad,so I think we all know it's intuitively true. You already made a couplereference points earlier in the conversation to kind of the deepand,even ancient roots, of a lot of this thought, including a Himsa, I'm notsure how old that concept is. Why do you think maybe we've held on, becauseI think the reason that there is resistance to it and that there's,because we hade this Wallup, where there's their professional and there'sthe personal, I think culturally, the wall has been coming down. It's beencoming down for years. It's why someone like Bernee Brown can write a anational best seller, which happens to be a businessbook about. You know,themes that we all see now when we spend time onlinked in vulnerability,authenticity, transparency, human to human, Brian Cramer, wrote that book. Idon't know six or ten years ago now I don't evenknow years ago so like so that wall's been coming down. Why? Maybe do youthink it's taken this long and how long ago, do you think you could havestarted this business? Because I don't think you could have started thisbusiness twenty years ago? Where do you think we are culturally around thesethemes, specifically in the business context? Do you think you could havestarted this twenty years ago like? Where are we in this in exnot justAwereness, but acceptance of this that this is the way we should be man?That's a really good question. I don't know. I don't know that I would havehad the awareness twenty years ago to start this company, because I'velearned so much along the way. So I spent you know the last twelve years or so ethirteen years of my life and sorry, my my girls are singing if you can hearthem, I I for that we witin the city and we have people walk by, and thishappens from time to time human nature of work these days right. So I will saythat you know that's way. I would answer that question. It's not! I don'tknow it's not necessarily that the world would not have been ready for itis that I would not have been ready for that very honestly. So I think that thereason that it's resonating are beginning to resonate now- and I do have friends from that- I'mneeting from around the world who are startying, similar consultancies andfor who have had them in place for the last year and a half two years. I thinkthat in some ways all of us were recognizing the same thing as we sat inairports and coverence rooms that we were as human beings even superdisconnected before, but like everything else, I think it takes thebottom sort of falling out for us to realize we shaken enough to realizewhere we are- and I think that you know covid has been one of those moments forlots of millions of moments at this point right for everyone around theglobe. To really understand you know, firstly, we slow down enough that we'venow said holy smokes look at what I was doing before I look at the choices Iwas making for myself. I don't I don't like those things. How do I begin toReboot, or I have an opportunity to rewrite this cript a little bit now. Ican't sit in a room with my people and leave them anymore, they're, allvirtual. I need to really be able to engage them, and so how do I inspirethem? I don't want to convince them. I need to inspire them, so I think tha,the bottom falling out for everyone in the world is probably very likelycreated a great deal of awareness. The really cool thing that that I realizedo Eten, as I did a survey at the end of two thousand and twenty, and it was apretty light survey, but probably about three hundred foaks Respondin a coupleof days- and I said one of the questions on the survey I wasinterested to know- did companies become kinder during covid and what Ilearned was T. seventy five percent of the respondend said. Yes, theircompanies have become kinder, so I say that there's a moment that that bottomfalling out did create this opportunity for awareness, and now the questionbecomes okay. How do we keep that train...

...going? Because the last the very lastquestion I aske on the survey, was when there's an absence of kind of inyour workplace, which of these do you feel, and they were disengagement-stress disloyalty. You know I feel undervalue at. I feel like I want toget a new job. Forty four percent of the people that responded. So I feelall of these things, so now we got back to the the gardene number right of thetrillion dollars: a volunteary turnever ore, the burnout numbers from the WorldHealth Organization, three hundred and twenty two million dollars a yoarglobally. So so the question now becomes now that we've got a highersuitof a way aldes around what is possible. Our sanctioaries have becomeour everything I mean you're here with me and my office, I'm there with you inyour Home Office and that wasn't true before either so anowthe question,because how do we take these lessons that we've learnedand use them as fuel to propel US forward to create the future ofbusiness? And I believe that future of business is very human and I believeit's based on connection and I believe that it starts with kindess. I believethose things too. I think that the pandemic was helpful ina lot of ways. Obviously we would never have wished it upon ourselves, but Ican't tell you how many people I've talked with that said. You know I usedto be on the road twenty seven weeks a year and it's like II'm watching mykids grow up, I'm home for dinner, all its like a like a lot of that stuff,the other thing to from a business standpoint. I, like the results of thatsurvey and think from a business standpoint. There is somethingexistential about the especially the early months of it whenver we weren'tsure houses going to affect us and our people in our team ind our operationsand then, as next step, once we kind of secure a mindset around. That is howdoes this affect our core customers in our secondary customers and ourtertiary customers? Are we have enough customers to even make this operationnecessarily and useful? An I think, in the face of an existential threat, wereimmediately made aware of a lot of things that we take for granted on aday to day basis, and so I think that in and of itself promotes Yo willimmediately. I would think that most healthy people would find gratitude inwhat is still there, and even if it's not a good situation oryou're, not feeling grateful you're at a minimum taking stock of like okay.What do I have? What do I not have? Where are we what's moving, what stable,Etcetra and even that pause alone, I think, is for the soil for somethinghealthy to grow in? I absolutely agree with that. I was having a conversationwith the head of HR at a company about a year ago, and we were talking abouttrain and she said well, you know how does kindness and myfulness bet intothe training that were already offering spending like investing like hundredsof thousands of dollars on every single year for our people. They said we'llthink about it. This way, you know if you're, a farmer and your livelihooddepends on you being able to plant seeds to grow crops that will yieldharvest. That will create revenue for you to feead your family pay your billsetce. Would you go and throw those seads on onground that is hard orbroken or filled with rock, and she said well, of course not. I said whynot and she said Woll, because they probably wouldn't do anything theywouldn't germinate. They wouldn't take cold. I said exactly so, as we thinkabout just offering people training, which you know. I have nothing againsttraining. I think it's wonderful. Those investments are great, but if we thinkabout that without thinking about you know really the foundation that Corteconfidency, that people need that core awareness that people need, because ifyou have any training in the world without those things that trating isnot going to be something that's really actionable or actionable in a way thatwill help create something like some great goodness for your company. But ifyou do have those things in place and such an amplifier, so I think that yeahI mean I think we are we've been shaken.

We are still shaken. We are stilluncertain and I would have never wished this on anyone in a million yearseither I mean I could have never seen it coming, but there are so manywonderful things that are coming out of this. Even I really believe that we arebecoming more in touch and more the ware of how valuable and necessary andfinal human connection is, and I've seen it. You know in my in my studyI've seen that in the conversations that I have with people, I mean thinkabout it now. I know your business is a little bit different, so you've hadmore video time with Foks that you know conference calls a year and a half ago,even a year ago, they weren't happening this way. They were happening withsometimes with a earbout in one ear and on phone with another conference callon the other side for some people. Sometimes they were whipping through aDriv through ordering tacos. Sometimes they were like. You Know How some GratAirport of picking up kids, they weren't really there and they weren'treally connecting, and so just that one example of how we've had to openourselves up and adapt and connect because hey there was no other choice.The buildings are closed. I think I think that's a really beautiful thingand I think again it goes back to this. This question that is now you knowpresented to us. What are we going to do? Ith It like? What are we going todo with all of these lessons that we've been offered during this reallyunspeakably tragic time? What are we going to do with that? How can we usethat to create workplaces that are wore human to create client experiences andcustomer experiences that are so visual and so real, because they are comingfrom something that is this for greater and far more valuable than you know,chasing a dollar or seeting a product somewhere? So I really think that's ahuge opportunity and it's been a it's been a really positive by product ofthis very difficult time. Yeah agree, and it's interesting I mean to hear youdescribe at the end there like it, starts to sound, big and challenging,but it is it S. is it as simple and I over simplifying? Is it as simple as showing up prepared being fully presentactively listening and engaging with some level of intention?Is it that simple yeah? I mean, I think, every single thing you described thoseare very practical day to day examples of kindness. I would add one thing tothat in the same way that we talked about you know, being a company andsaying who am I serving? What are we creating and why does it matter forthem? I think you have that same opportunity. If you call a meeting witha colleague, for instance, or a team of people giving that same care andconcern to them as also a form of practical Kindis, we may not label itas that, but that's exactly what it is to say. Okay, let me think about who Ineed for this meeting. Let me invite only those people, let me think of howmuch time do yo I need do. I need the abligatory hour or do I really needtwenty two minutes? Let me think about what we're going to do together and whyit matters for all of us to show up in the same place and then connectingthose people with that you're inviting or that you're going to be. You knowhaving a conversation with connecting them back with those ideas. Those areall forms of practical kindness. They do require awareness and intention, andso you know for anybody listening today. I think that there are super bigproblems in the world. There are super big things to be healed and if we focuson those they can become devilotating. You know we can just say I'm one person.I can't do it, but every one person- and this is why my podcast is aboutevery single one person can create a rifle, and the science also shows usthat kindness is very contagious, and so, if you show up even in that nextmeeting that you have with Coworker, who is maybe see the world differently,there they're one of the harder people refer around the edges. They've gotthey're the Potho people. That's what we calhem opportunity to repair thePOTLS. If you show up in this this way, it becomes very infectious and thatperson may sit on the outside for the... two mediums kind of looking at youlike this, but by the third leating they're, going to start to realize.There's something happening here. I now feel on the outside of this group ofpeople that they're all they're, all viving they're, all groven, alongthey're, all creating something and they're having fun while they're doingit and and we're getting like better results. It's going to start to become veryobvious, and then even that person who started off on the outside, they willfind a way to repair the pot hole and he will find a way to join the smoothroad so good and I think in it, in a evenimmediatelike R hundred and fifty people at Bombam. I think you know iftwo or three people started that it would not take long for that to becomea present cultural phenomenon, a as yousaid, it's contagious B. I think it's fundamentally attractive. Everyonewants to feel seen and Hert and appreciated, and you know Soye sose tothese acts that think about what other people might need or want. Maybe shedoesn't need to be in this meeting. We can just send her some nose. Sheappreciates that. You thought about me. You still. I need to come if I wantedto, but you made it clear to me that this might be too early for you to beinvolved in the process or there's nothing for you like just that level ofthought and care. I think to your point, can spread very very quickly and evenin a you know, a small themedium size organization like ours, things likethat can become the norm. I think very, very quickly. Absolutely oh yeah! Imean you're at the size where and there is a rorl difference between smallcompanies, and you know, companies with Brin hundred an thirty houzand peoplein them. There are certainly pockets of impact that you know bit cut. You canhave in big companies, but the company's your size and even a littlelarger, I would say up to a few thousand people. Have this realopportunity, but it's something that's got to go through the organization andit's got a it has to be gun with. In my humble opinion, that has to begin with, starting that valued system aroundholding kindness is a cor value, not as a sal squishy thing that is a floweryemail but holding kindness is a core value. We agree that we will do no harm.We agree that we will respect that. We will listen objectively, that we willhold space for other people. You know, even if we think differently, and so Ithink that that's where it starts, but then you can take it through in verysimple ways every single day and then guess what now don' think about thisthink about our country a little bit right now, because men, if we had a lotto think about in our country, Erver the last year outside of outside ofwhat we called here in the south, the covid right we've had a lot of otherthings to think about. We've had you know: It's been a filling our media forthe last year, all of the places of disconnection and conflict and thinkabout this. For one moment, if our nail siting president has the ability to sayto all of his leaders, his cabinet members, his congress, people,everybody to say, Hey, listen, we're not going to figure everything out thisway, but we're going to start in this one place, we're going to start by agrain to do no harm. Here's. What that looks like in practice. It means thatwhen we violently disagree, we do it with respect. We do it with with careand caution, and you do it with the promise that we will listen to theother person who thinks differently than we do when hey make a policy whenwe agree to anything that we have to look through that same lens of kindness,and so if you can begin to understand, you know these giant problems oropportunities or whatever you'd like to call them that have every single person just getting onboard. It's just that much you don't have to say. I am a kindness warrior.You can be type, you can be a little rough around the entest, but you canjust dagreed that much and the person next to you can agree and the next one,and now we know it's contagious in the rifles out. That's where I really haveI'm not just an optimist. I have huge hope for the world and for our futuregenerations that that can actually be the experience that they have yeah. Ithink it is. I think it's happening I...

...feel like it is. You know at some pointin a transition from we're interested in it, we're talking about it to somedegree of practice, and I think it's only going to continue to grow and whenI think about some of the I watch those at Google lectures on youtube from timeto time. You know and foremost thinkers and things show up, and you know thingslike mindfulness, which of course has been woven throughout this entireconversation have been a topic in some of the most progressive companies inmost successful companies on earth for years, and so I also have hope aroundit as well before I let you go cold course. I love to give everyone theopportunity to do to things. The first is to think or mention someone who'shad a positive impact on his or her life or career, and then to give ashout out to a company that she r he respects for the experience that theydeliver as for for them as a customer, sir. So I'm going to give a shot up forthe first one to side to money. who was the CEO that hired me an answeble forkindess, first and hired all this for kindiss first. So so I bid love to you.You know what you did wrigt and then I will give a shout out to Wherebycom,because I think that they are doing the most incredible business of this humanbusiness. It's business that helps the planet through their video conferencingplatform, and I know for a fact that kindness is e part of their DNA respectas a part of their DNA, and you know it's a Scinminadian company that holdsall of this things, to be very coor to everything that they do and it isinfluencing the platform in the tool that they have released to the worldand man. I have so much big love for them. I just so appreciate a tectcompany that actually has that vision for humans. Much Mor much like y momright that Human Vision, Human Center type company- They don't have to beindependent things. So thank you where bycom awesome. This has been anabsolute pleasure Col. how can people follow up with you, the podcast thatyou started relatively recently? I hope that's an awesome journey for you andor anything else. Where would you send people to learn more about you, cooladry or the currensming? This has been an absolutedcast started. tivelyrecently, osn'n aws, you ready Dos Whatyo, sai kin of t was going to officially launchon February. Fourteenh no coincidence there, and so you can find that it willbe available on all the places. You know all of that you're listeningplaces right, apple, spotify, stitcher, all the rest, but they can also go andfind all the episodes on the cool ludgury website just by cool lodery,Fort Slash, podcast and then I'm on Linkeden under Colbaker Batwell. Sothose are the best ways for people to catch up with me and I'd love for themto awesome. If you are listening and you are on the move and you didn'twrite any of that stuff down- it's easy: Cold Baker. Bagwell! If you Google, toher name or Cool Audrey, you will find her. You can also again check out videoclips and I put links to all these things at bumbomcom, slash, podcast. Weround up all these episodes this one I was fantastic. I appreciate so muchyour time and what you're doing in the world. I hope to make more wipples withyou yeah. Let's do it, let's create as enome. I love it clear communication, human connection,higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to themessages your sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance,so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business, how personal videos,accelerate sales and improve customer experience learn more in order today atBombamcom Book. That's Bo, MB bombcom book thanks for listening to thecustomer experience. podcast remember the single most important thing you cando today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers,continue learning the latest strategies...

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