The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 123 · 1 year ago

123. Transforming Customer Relationships with Transparency and Collaboration w/ Scott McCorkle


These trends will be important for the future of CRM: transparency, multiple companies working together, and proving value using a new wave of enterprise software and data sharing. What if we started to think of the customer being part of our customer system?

In this episode, I interview Scott McCorkle, CEO at MetaCX, about how to reinvent CRM with transparency.

Scott and I talked about:

- The definition of competitive customer experience

- Trends in enterprise software driven, in part, by the pandemic

- Feedback on MetaCX’s emotional outcome-based view of relationship

- Embracing uncertainty, challenge, and mistakes in the startup world

Check out these resources we mentioned during the podcast:

- Scott Dorsey

- Delta Airlines

- MetaCX

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The foundation of a relationship between a supplier buyer is identifying the outcomes that the buyer would like to achieve how the supplier will achieve those outcomes. The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte, reinventing CRM, customer relationship management, reimagining the customer life cycle through the Lens of the customer. That's where we're heading today on episode one hundred and twenty three of the customer experience podcast. Our guest spent eight years at exact target, where he served as president of Technology and strategy. He spent three years at sales force, where he served as CEO of Sales Force Marketing Cloud. For the past three years, he served as CEO at metic x, where he's also a founding team member. Meticx is bringing together the suppliers and the buyers of enterprice software for better collaboration, greater clarity on desired outcomes and real time visibility into true customer success. They're all about selling on value and renewing on proof. Scott mccorkal, welcome to the customer experience podcast, as you think. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me. Yeah, I'm really excited about this conversation. I think what you're doing is really cool. I think it's one of these things that seems like should have been solved already, but as I think back on all the conversations I've had over a hundred and twenty two episodes, it clearly hasn't. So I really appreciate what you all are up to. But before we get into it, I love to know what you think about the scene in Indie. I feel like Indianapolis is like this slightly under the radar tech hub. You've obviously built a very successful software management and leadership career there. What's going on in Indie? Yeah, it's Toad trific startup. Seeing a lot of technology and innovation and you can trace a lot of innovation centers back to roots of companies that made a big impact in Indianapolis. The indie area was very fortunate to have exact target of fired by sales force, interactive intelligence by Genesis and Jie's list is based in Indianapolis. You had a lot of marketing tech, other companies like a Primo, very early pioneer, and marketing resource management. So from that foundation you have all these executives now with experience, ideas, competence, importantly, and off they go to start companies. There are dozens of companies that have sprung out of the exact target lineage and it's a very, very exciting scene. It's really cool. I've are. Our Son is heading there this fall for college and so we visited a few times and it's like it reminds me a little bit of like shopping for a car, like as soon as you kind of narrow down to two or three models, that's all you see on the road. You know, like you're just and so I feel like the more attention I started paying it to Indianapolis, more obvious it was that there was all kinds of cool activity going on there and we're really proud of the whole midwest scene. You look at Columbus, Ohio and Ourbur Kansas City, Cincinnati of course Chicago as a big anker in the Midwest and I think what we've all experienced this last ten months is you can be anywhere and these are wonderful locations to start companies that have businesses, very business friendly environments and very, I dare say, Cosmopolitan. The downtown area and indies very walkable. It feels like you're in this cute little European city and it's just lovely. Yeah, totally agree. We stayed downtown last time we were there on the canal at that point and walked quite a bit all over the place in all in all directions, and you have a state park right down there on the river, but right pretty, which is super unique having a state park in the middle of the city. But we'll call that an quick drive by on Indy. Thank you for doing that with me. I just personally curious what...

...your take was on it as someone who's been there for years. So let's go now Scott, where we always go, which is customer experience. When I'd say that, what does it mean to you? How do you define it or what characteristics would you like to highlight? Yeah, what a great place to start. And Ethan. First, my head space is very much in this enterprise, B Tob World, which I think is fair to say is bringing up the rear in the whole digital transformation category. In the buyer supplier relationship, there are requirements of being a customer. Things you need to do. You pay invoices, training, sign contracts, it's called support, track shipments. There's this whole variety of things that just fall upon a customer. That's customer experience. For a supplier. These are moments to make things easier for the customer, to show care and attention, fixed things when they go wrong. Customer experience. Now, being a customer implies that you have a product. That's ultimately what makes one a customer, and especially an enterprise be to be that experience in the product matters most. But ironically, if you look at the product experience, which is why you're a customer in the first place, and the customer experience, which are all these things that are required of you because you're a customer, they're completely separate. There's no real connection between me and my product, using a product here and me engaging in some renewal exercise for the contract or interacting with support, and those need to come together. In fact, I think if we look at the world of digital transformation and ask what that means and is that important? I think a good place to start is you remove the distinction between being a customer and using the product. Product experience, a customer experience become one. Now, finally, around the ring, there are countless inner actions that are in service of that. Newsletters, conferences, blog post content, marketing, all that's customer experience to but that piece in the core, I think it is the most important. What is it that you're experiencing to the product and what is required of you because you're a customer? So good, I think you just painted a picture for folks of where we're going to be going in just a couple of minutes, specific to Medicx, because it sounds like the way that you laid that out, you obviously view it a very particular way and you've created a solution around it. But while we're still here on customer experience at a bit of a high level in your view and in your experience, what does it mean to compete on customer experience? Means? Certainly was at an early premise of the show, through the first probably through the first five or six episodes. Is Very obvious that this is a point, if not the point, of competition presently and going forward. Give any thoughts on that? I sure do. I think it's a very important point for all of us to Digest. That starts in the world of technology, especially that product differentiation is really gone. There are so many alternatives in any product category that, candidly, would be a fine choice for a buyer to pick. And all of us have so many powerful tools at our disposal now, aws, Google Cloud asure. I mean it's amazing what you can unleash in a very early stage of a company with these am using public clouds is mind blowing. So the idea that you could somehow differentiate with technology or this feature or that feature, I think is long gone. So how it is you show a customer that you care, that you are bringing them into the process of identifying their needs, showing a path to solve those needs, doing that in such a way that the customer sees it, they notice, they say to themselves, I like this, I like the way this interaction is happening. I would miss it if it were gone. That is competing our customer experience. I so appreciate that you went to use several words. They're that are essentially immeasurables. But we all know that they make such a measurable difference and it's just hard... get your hands around it. I feel like some of the language that you use there in terms of caring and what we make people think, and I think what you were describing there from the customers mind is probably not conscious, explicitly conscious to the customers, just something that they feel inside them. And I think that this when we talk about the humanization or the rehumanization of business, when we talk about some of the warmer, softer words that have entered popular business vocabulary, like empathy and vulnerability. I think that's what we're getting at and I do feel like there's this move from the, I guess in industrial approach to things, where we construct things and measure the measurables and kind of set the immeasurable is on the side because they're soft or because we can't get our hands on them. But it's really interesting to see this coming together. In your view. We're chatting a little bit before we hit record, of course, and you mentioned that you feel like we're on the cusp of something really exciting in this whole zone. Is Anything I just monolog down there related to some of the things that you're excited about. It really does. But your thought has a real important to trigger something that I've loved to anchor on and then expand out to the inflection point. I think we're at that humanization element. In my experience, and I'm thirty years in enterprise software, where I think I've done the best job at customer experience, just with respective my interaction and just direct influence of the experience. In a moment is when things have been the worst it's been in a red account. Something has gone wrong. It's a highly escalated situation and when that hats a that's very focusing, that's very clarifying. All the BS goes away. You Zoom in and you focus on what's gone wrong. What will fix it? How will we keep track of the being fixed? Clarity is of the essence and if I reflect on relationships I have in the business world, by far the best people I could pick up the phone and talk to that I haven't talked to him fifteen years. Are those examples of escalated situations that required intense focus effects. So there is that human elements that's very much a part of this and how us, it's humans solve problems together now. How we used to do that, coming facetoface has changed, and even when we're all able to hop back on whatever plane we want to hop on and jump all around, I think there's been a realization of productivity and a leveling of digital interaction that we're not going back to that. It's just effective. I don't know where I would find two hours to go to the airport, hop on a plane and get to my hotel. You know what I mean? I've I fill that time up with something else. So I think that's going to spill out into how we all interact with our customers in the B to see when the many's and the enterprise be to be one two ones. There's going to be this expectation of a digital layer and enhancing everything that we do. That I think we've accelerated by five years in this past few months. Yeah, really exciting. I agree. As I think back about how much time I I mean I mentioned my son earlier, but when I think about how much facetime I've had with my wife and son and how much more productive I can be in any five day period, I think a lot of that is affected by being able to reach people much more quickly, much more often, more faces, more interactions throughout any given time period, because I'm not, you know, sitting out a plane or sitting in an uber or a or a lift. So I feel like again, you've already kind of foreshadowed this a little bit. But for people who aren't familiar, tell us a little bit about metic CX specifically, like who is your ideal customer and what have you set out to solve for them? So we see that the foundation of a relationship between us, a fire and buyer is identifying the outcomes that the buyer would like to achieve, how the supplier will achieve those outcomes. And as we rethought the idea of customer experience and thought, how can we make it more digitally...

...transformed? How can we have the supplier and buy are interacting together in a share digital space that each sees as their own, to manifest the relationship, to see if things are going okay, back to the idea of a whole customer system, crm customer success as a whole bunch of categories of customer systems. We found it ironic that the customers not part of those systems. There is an exhaust a trail of data about them that the customer isn't there. So if we start to think about will guide? Is there more digital transformation left to happen, then has happened? Yeah, there's we got a lot more to do. Well, what might that look like? Well, what if we started to think of the customer being part of our customer system? What if we started to think of from the earliest moments of engagement and deal management, the suppliers and buyers have a place to work together to define the requirements of their relationship and how we measured and then all the different components of the life cycle and the various handoffs that happened and then, ultimately, the proof of performance. I'll just up into that just a bit because we all know the world of digital products are lend themselves to be highly measurable, and I believe what we've been measuring up until now is product characteristics. What's happening in the product? Who's clicking on what? Who's doing what action? It's not customer analytics. It's not how is the product being engaged in such a way to support the outcomes that were defined early, the micro value that needs to be delivered on the way to outcome achievement. So it's really a rethinking of that deal management, to handoffs, the proof of performance, suppliers and buyers being equal in one place to have a successful relationship. So interesting. It reminds me a little bit. I mean this is the middle ground and actually it's probably be a better place than remember in coming across the idea of Vrm a couple of years ago where, you know, we as consumers would have vendor relationship management, where we'd have a platform where we could manage all of I just think about it personally, like all the personal subscriptions and things that I have, but I like this idea of bringing both sides together. So so, just a really guts of it, what you're offering is as a maybe a cobranded space that both people can come into it anytime. That's maybe bringing in some data from other sources, from both sides of the relationship, like just go, go one. You're deeper into the practical because I think it's really interesting. Yeah, and you're touching up something very important with the data. So yes, a cobranded space where a supplier can expose to their buyer really without any need for the buyer to be aware of what's happening. Other they've been invited into a shared space or the buyer themselves can say I would like to actually step into the medic x environment more directly, because there are many use cases where the supplier by itself does not have a full picture of the Roi or the benefits that are being delivered by the product, that there's something downstream happening with the buyer, other systems or other backing processes that, if made available to the supplier, would help both parties see that values being delivered. So part of that the quality that we see between a buyer and a supplier is both get to contribute data to say here's what we see happening. Each up to the company. No data could be shared or a lot of data could be shared, and when we think of sharing data's really an aggregated level of performance and metrics, but very important for both relationship sides to understand, hey, is this thing working or not? What we see happening is very exciting for us as we've had buyers get exposed to something...

...that we have gone to market positioning to suppliers. We've had buyers reach out saying who we introduce you to more suppliers, because we sort of like the way this works. So we're very excited about that. And when that happens, the buyer is actually able to see many vendors, so they think it is a brm. The supplier thinks it's a crm. We have no idea what to call it. So we're all ears if you have any ideas here in our our session. You know, every company likes to think Oh, or created a new category. Rarely does that happen, but we think, we think this is one. And importantly, one more thing. One company does not get to create a category. It's not that we don't get to declare we hear by it. It's a movement. There have to be companies of like minds coming together. And back to the inflection point. We really do see some thinking here another pockets of the industry where you shouldn't we be all collaborating in not just a freeform collaboration space, but one of our systems of record started to have more collaboration in wouldn't that be helpful? So I think we'll see a lot of movement here. So much good stuff in there. I guess I'll go to the just identifying with the pride don't have, by the way, I don't have a name for it. So about it might occurred to me. It might occurred to me in the conversation or later. I'll certainly keep it in mind, but it immediately reminds me of you know, as we were setting out, I've been with bomb bomb for I think nine years full time, which is crazy and hindsight, but it just keeps evolving and changing and it's Super Fun, but it but early on. Of course, we're looking, you know, as you well know. You know, we're looking to prove efficacy to our custom stommers and to understand where they're getting the value so we can start incorporating that more into our messaging and have more examples and better examples to teach and train people to do this new thing that most people aren't doing, which is recording simple, casual conversational videos in place of what would typically be a two or three paragraph email or a linkedin message or whatever. It's just warmer and easier and more personal, etc. And the what we never had great insight into, except with some of our closest customers. Certainly the larger customers were more interested, and so we partner in some of the ways that you're making even better and even easier and even more transparent that downstream stuff. For for you know, we're a bit of a volume business. We have like fifty eight thousand customers. Some of them are one or two people accounts and some of them are three hundred or even three thousand person accounts and everything in between. But for especially around these kind of ones Eto z situations that that we built our business on, which gave us a great level of clarity and understanding as to how people are using it and what they're doing. We never had that closed loop on is this producing revenue and if so, when and why and how and how often and a lot of this stuff, because we were waiting on and asking for and partnering for this kind of well, after the fact, anecdotal feedback that that sometimes has a number attached to it and sometimes that number is a dollar figure. And so this idea of bringing it all together in how and creating true partnership between two two parties who are in business together. I think anyone who's operating from a basically contemporary point of view sees it as a partnership rather than a supplier customer relationship. Specifically, although we have to use that language so that everyone can know what we're talking about, I think this partnership element is alive and well and what you're doing. I'd love for you to talk a little bit about. You know, as you were just just prefounding, you know what was going on in your view, if you have anything to add to this in terms of trust, transparency, traditional crm, traditional views of the life cycle, etc. I mean, I think you've already acknowledged kind of the the internal bias in all of these things. As we talked about them and think about them. We're thinking to construct them and use them. We're thinking about it from our own view as the provider of the product or service. But what other trends were you seeing that you're like, we need to go here could because what you're doing is one of these things that seems... someone should have been doing five or ten years ago, but here we are. It does and it'd be fun to step into that too. I think there are some very, very important trends that we need to anchor on and ask do we think these trends will be important for how we think about the future, a year, five years, ten years from now, and we believe they are. The first is transparency, and you men's mentioned transparency. Will be expectations of transparency be more or less in the future. We're transparency means that we understand the expectations and we're able to show and prove the expectations were met. I think they'll be a higher expectation of transparency in the future than a lower and as companies discover ways to demonstrate that the customers. Back to your competing on customer experience question, buyers will notice that, will like it and, on the increment, will pick suppliers doing that more than other suppliers, and that will be the foundation of that trend really taking life. So then the mechanics of this. I think there's something important to step in there as well, as we start to think about measuring true Roy suppliers and buyers, the in her inherent biases of just our own perspectives you describe. Well, all that's pretty banked into the way our systems work and our architecture and even the idea of your company and bombomb increasing revenue, the whole idea of a supplier and buyer figuring out how to then actually prove that in reality. Would bump up against all kinds of integration constraints and what we don't even really know how to do that. And well, how would we measure? But if we step back and sort of remove the way we think of enterprise software today and ask our buyers buying products from suppliers for the purpose of driving more revenue, of course they are other metrics to but of course they are. What if there was a framework built in to be able to prove that happening? What if you could put yourself into an environment where you, a Priori know that you want higher revenue and you're going to hold the vendors you select accountable for higher revenue and you've prebaked the way to actually show that relationship. When we think of that, what we'll put to a trend is we're thinking, and we're thinking is an ecosystem. We're not thinking of buying software for our four walls. And maybe there's integration, but we exist amongst many companies that have share goals and it's in our best interest to create ways to measure and be in the accountable to the same plan. So if we start to think about what systems might look like for that ecosystem. I think they're very different. So these trends of transparency, thinking of multiple companies working together. How do you actually prove value? I think it combined within the pandemic, throwing in a bit of like let's all get to accelerate the next five years of digital interaction. It's going to be a new wave of enterprise software that will look different and that's that's what we're committed to explore. So this to me seems so obviously healthy for everyone involved, just this level of clarity. I'm sure there's some anxiety around the level of accountability that maybe requires from some people, whether it's the salesperson or whether it's the the delivery of the service. is now this new layer of accountability, but it seems so healthy for everyone. Like what kind of feedback are you hearing around that theme? Yes, and we see evidence of this thinking in lots of different pockets, as I described. So we'll see a lot of organizations of that value selling methodologies. How do we better position value, understand what the customer needs and how our value maps to that need. So that's an example of organizations trying to get closer to real customer need. But interestingly, as we start... think about how to spread that across the entire customer life cycle, to truly integrate all the various functions of a company, that can be hard to do. There could be organizations that say, you know, we might not be ready for that, or we need to think about how we organize ourselves. So there is some real, I'll call it, friction as these ideas in the market place. It doesn't mean that the trends aren't right, it doesn't mean it's that's where we're going, but the kind of ideas we are talking about here are not in a phase of mass adoption. We are clearly in early adopters, the the tender centers who are thinking about how to create an edge or experiment with ideas now. We believe that that will be successful and create a path to these ideas being adopted more broadly. But it's some irony that they aren't, because we all like to say we are building a three sixty view of the customer, or we have an integrated customer experience or we put the customers at the center, but that just doesn't have the degree of digital support. Digital transformation the buyer actually being part of it, the buyer see it and experiencing it. If the buyer doesn't see it, the buyer doesn't experience it, it can't be differentiated customer experience. So we just have a long way to go there. Yeah, I think that the culture shift is a it's a human issue, obviously not a tech issue. The tech is well, you're solving it and is it's interesting to see how people move. But to your but to your broader level, I mean you're obviously in the right direction and on theme with we're going to need and want more transparency than less, and I think this is from an experiential standpoint, provide so much confidence and I just imagine the benefit of renewing on proof, as you you know, as your website states and as you've already stated here, is this. It's of obvious benefit. I want to go to the company a little bit at a functional level, talk a little bit about your core values, like how did you and some of the other early team members arrive at them and kind of what role do they play day to day, week to week? We wanted to be comfortable pushing up to the edge. We wanted to very consciously ask what the future of enterprise awkward looks like. How can we influence and effect that, and to not be afraid of making mistakes and to not be afraid of being told we're wrong and to embrace the idea of finding the edge and to do that in a way that we are not just fearless, in a reckless way, but very supportive of one another and creating an environment that, whatever happens, because startups are full of uncertainty, that each individual would have been better for the experience, would have learned something and would be able to take that experience on through the rest of their career. Now, hopefully that's a good long while and we actually have traction building as a company. But you know, this starting startup world's full of uncertainty and with our core values, we just like the idea of embracing that is supposed to be hard, is supposed to be unknown. Every day, by definition, we're doing something that we hadn't done before. In the moment it feels kind of not great always, but if you look back look at all we've done, you see the progress in the rearview mirror, not the front view when shield. So we try to capture that whole spirit with our our four values. Really good. I like what you offered there in terms of the phrase that came to mind was accepting reality, and then next step, embracing reality like this is actually how it's supposed to be. It's the reality of the situation, and so let's embrace it in and and make it turn it to our favor. Yeah, that that's that's right. We just launched in June and have been spending a lot of time talking to experts, attundance and thought leaders, and sure enjoy the opportunity here for that. We could... asked by an analyst with tripic amount experience, you know, how do we know this is going to work? And we don't very good question. That's that's right, and that's just I find it very comforting. But to press in innovation with that mindset, I think it makes you more open to learn. I think it makes you more critical of your keep kind of keeps you, you know, out of your own press releases and it makes you part of an industry that's trying to do things better. So we embrace that with our values. Super a little bit of a personal question for folks who are listening that aspire to do more, be more, lead more, contribute more. I just want to observe that you're a board member for several organizations, including the Indiana Chamber of Commerce, or executive in residence at Hi Alpha. Like how do you choose what to get involved in and how do you manage it all, because I have to imagine that the more you go down that road, the more well known you are and the more people want you to participate in what they're doing. I imagine you've had to say no at least three times as often as you've said yes. Like, how do you choose what you do and don't do and how do you manage it? Yeah, what a great question, and there's a lot of moments of learning where that learning creates a perspective that there are a lot of other people out there moving and acting beyond themselves and their own interest with their own companies to make the broader community better. And there were moments through the exact parget period especially, where there is a degree of community engagement around variety of issues that needed attention and influence and I historically hadn't been part of that. And I think there's a tech people can be kind of introverted in their own cut, you know. And so when I was exposed to all these very effective leaders spending all this time and energy on causes that would make the community better, I was very struck by that. In thought you got to help out. You know, there's a there's just there's it just can't beat. is about you and your own company. So that was very influential to me and me know chambers of the tripical organization. Then, as I left sales force and started to work with startups again, it became clear that the ninety minutes over lunch sharing a little bit of advice and experience, you have to be careful with that because an entrepreneur, well intended, might sort of tear off and start execut shooting on that. You'll thanks for the idea I just put it was like, Whoah, you know that was we were just like, you know, brainstorming there and you know so, but I but I thought, well, guys, there there really is some experience here that I had people spend time with me and here these entrepreneurs trying to start these companies. What if I just stepped in a bit more? What if I really try to help them from a board seat or even engaging operationally, and that was that was very, very fulfilling to I should highlight, by the way, it's a very different muscle having a couple things moving on, not just your own company, even though this lasted dynamics in your own company, but engaging with a couple I found very helpful just with how to sort out priorities and how to focus on a variety of things and how to manage time. So it was a different muscle, really good. I think it's I think it's important as obviously a benefit to you personally, it's a benefit to the broader community and I would imagine that you've just learned a ton in the process, in addition to probably creating some very fulfilling relationships it. You meet people and you think about the impact of that networking in the relationships and ultimately it can come back...

...and actually help your business. And it's I'm not a national networker and when I step in and will have network at a experiences and some something is revealed in that that is a value to both. It's like, my gods, should have been so easy not to have done that. So it's just stepping out and being open to ideas and engaging and it's just an important part of business. Completely a completely agree hey, if you're listening to this episode in your you've enjoyed everything that Scott is brought to this conversation. I've got two more that I know that you'll enjoy as well. Episode Seventeen and early episode with Jonathan Bolton, who is our chief customer officer here at bombomb. We called that one the best customer experience delivers an appropriate experience, and the reason I wanted to highlight that in this context is that it really is this a customer orientation. Instead of thinking about the experience we want to deliver, it's what is appropriate for that person in that context and in that time sets, episode seventeen with Jonathan Bolton and then more recently, episode ninety with Todd Capony, another Midwest Guy. He's up in the Chicago area, author of the transparency sale and we called that one. Why? Transparency sells better than perfection, and I think, Scott, when I think about what you all are doing, it's knocking down this idea that we need to pretend like we're perfect. We need to sell as if we're perfect, which inevitably is an overpromise which inevitably leads to under delivery and instead just just this. I think the subtitle in his book is involves the phrase unexpected honesty, and I think it just those two words together are a little bit sad and in that honesty can be so refreshing and unexpected. But but to your point, I think transparency is where this is all going. So episode seventeen with Jonathan Bolden, episode ninety with Todd, Capony and Scott. Before I let you go, I'd love to give you two opportunities. The first is to think or mention a person who has had a positive impact on your life or your career, and the other is to give a shoutout or not, or a mention to a brand or company that you personally appreciate for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer. Yeah, terriffic, triffic. So I think for the person that has had a big impact, I'd like to introduce it through this word experience, and we've been talking a lot about experience and a lot about transparency and the word experience as a powerful word. It is. It is sort of you know that maybe the asses of consciousness right I mean all we were experiencing all these things as people together, and Scott Dorsey, my boss at exact target, the founder of exact target, I have never met a person who is so conscious of, selfaware and in control of every experience that he's having and so selfless with those experience. Your question on time and how to prioritize many things just I've never seen someone so genuinely excited to have an experience where there could be some exchange, big or small, that creates benefit. And just watching that over the years and just asking how could I be a little bit like that, has been a big, big benefit to me. On the brand, the company. Guys, it's going to make me miss the eye because I miss him so much. Delta Airlines. I just and you know it's I you know, I travel a lot and travel a lot and I just think Delta Airlines cares more. You know, it's not the loyalty programs or the things they do on the high end of people are travel a lot. It's just the Daytoday, planes getting from one place to another, going wrong and trying to fix things and just the end moment experience. I just think the Delta cares and they do a very good job of having their entire staff care that the traveler has is good experience and, possible, really good. I mean it speaks, I think, to culture. Is the only way to do that. A experience after experience like your experience...

...over dozens of trips, if not hundreds. Maybe I'm speculated, that the consistency and delivering that obviously speaks to a really strong cultural component. And I love what you shared there about modeled behavior and it just made me think about the effect of good leadership, good friendship, good partnership, and the way that it inspires each of us to change our own behavior, which then affects other people, affects other people affects other people. It's just really, really positive. A good job on both of those. Thank you for doing that and for folks who are listening at this moment, I know that they've enjoyed the conversation. They're probably interested to learn more about you and or about Metaicx, where a couple places you would send people to follow up on this conversation. You know, we're putting a lot of stuff out on twitter, at metic x, our website, in the blog post metic xcom and just you know, there's a great body of research coming from the analyst that we see part of this inflection point. But our website and twitter linkedin medic X on linkedin super really quickly metaicx. How many? Just going back to kind of this founding prefounding window of obviously a lot of places you could go with the nature of what you're doing. What was the process of arriving at metic x? By the way, for folks listening, it just is what it is, Meta, e Me Eta, CX on all these platforms. We'll start with the CX, the supply or buyer equality. We were hesitant to use the word customer because it seemed to be one directional, biased, but we haven't thought of that other word yet or other phrase or category. People understand being and having customers. So we said CEX Meta, that we want to create a digital layer that connects the different parts of the customer experience in a way that can enhance pieces that are already there, connect nodes that the customer needs, that they already exist, that we can actually go into a product to help the experience of that product, connect the data from various different parts and Pleadis of fire and buyer and so. So we think of it as a digital layer that is Meta to the existing customer experience. We're not really trying to replace anything, we're just trying to bring it into a digital world that it could be seen and acted on in a more effective way. Well done on obvious need a clear vision. I appreciate you sharing it with us and I hope you have a great rest of your day and a great weekend ahead. E Than, thank you so much. It was a triffic conversation. Have a great day. Clear Communication, human connection, higher conversion. These are just some of the benefits of adding video to the messages you're sending every day. It's easy to do with just a little guidance, so pick up the official book rehumanize Your Business. How personal videos accelerate sales and improve customer experience. Learn more in order today at Bombombcom Book. That's bomb bombcom book. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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