The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode · 3 weeks ago

210. Tripling Your Social Media Engagement w/ Kate Bradley Chernis

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Can you imagine doubling or tripling engagement on your social media? 

Maybe it’s not as hard as you think. 

Take it from somebody whose operations have had an average of 180-240% increase in engagement for customers, boasts a 98% sales conversions and even reigned in an unfathomable 12,000% increase for the likes of monster personality, Gary Vaynerchuk. 

Hear our conversation with Kate Bradley Chernis, CEO at Lately.ai:

  • How to create fans and evangelists out of customers
  • What a 98% sales conversion rate leader does
  • How AI can save you time and money
  • Who can benefit from AI in their social media  

More information about Kate Bradley Chernis and today’s topics:

Subscribe, listen, and rate/review the Customer Experience Podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon, or Google Podcasts, and find more episodes on our blog.

The single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. How do you like to triple your engagement on social media? Sounds like a benefit to customer relationships, customer experience and business outcomes. Right. If an average of a lift in your social engagement is of interest, you're in the right place, because we'll break down who's experiencing it and how and why it's happening for them. Today's guest is the CO founder and CEO at lately. Ai Lately learns which words get you the most engagement and turns video, audio and text into dozens of social posts containing those words, and it's delivering a hundred eighty two lifting and agement for customers on average. Before Co founding lately, she founded a full service marketing and branding agency, did marketing consulting for organizations like Walmart, United Way and Indiego, go and DJ for tens of millions of listeners at serious Xm Kate Bradley Churn is, welcome to the customer experience podcast. Hey there, Ethan, hey, you doing great. I'm really excited for the conversation. I love what you're doing it lately. I definitely want to get into kind of the AI piece. You know, it comes up a lot like what should humans do, what should machines do? How do we find balance in that? And that's certainly going to be at the heart of what we're covering here. But I'm gonna Start, Kate, where we always start, which is customer experience. When I say that, what does it mean to you? It means it's so funny. It's synonymous to me with employee experience. Right. So when we are big fans of the golden rule, do onto others and we treat people the way we want to be treated. And it starts with me, right. So I'm the leader and I've worked in corporate America and it didn't serve me very well. So I treat people the way I want to be treated first and foremost, and and it's a little bit it's not for everyone, Ethan, right. So I'm a wild horse. I don't like to be micromanaged at all. So I have to surmember myself with people who are the same way but who can also run on their own, and that's hard to find because not everyone really fits that bill. And at the same time, you know figure out how to corral and lead them. So it's a bit of a double edged sword in that way. But the biggest thing that that I learned from my mentors is when you give other people the permission to be themselves, warts and all, they're able to rise to those occasions and then they start to treat other people the same way. So it's Um contagious. Yeah, I love it. I'm there's a great deal of kinship in two things you offered here. We dedicated episode two hundred exclusively to employee experience because it's been a background theme on the show since, you know, the earliest days. But we pulled clips from twelve different people from episodes one on one, to just to really right raise up this this awareness and understanding of not just what employee experiences but why it matters and how to improvement, how to improve it. And then the golden rule is just a background theme. In fact, we wrote extensively about it in for people who are watching video clips. It's the yellow book over my shoulder here, human center communication, and so a great deal of kinship here. When did you, I mean, do you consciously think about customer experience in the context of either of the businesses that you founded, or is it really your focus on employee experience and the rest is all you just trust that it's all going to happen as it should. For sure we think about customer experience specifically, and one way is, again, golden rules. So this is so easy and you can all do this. Sign up and have your customer, your employees, sign up for all of...

...the emails that your customers get. All of your employees should be following all of your stuff on social so you want them to be on the receiving end of what your customers are also seeing. It's a great way to catch mistakes right Um, and it puts them in that those shoes. You want everyone to have the sympathy or or the empathy, whatever the case may be, as much as possible. You know, one of the things that I'm great at, Ethan, is turning customers into evangelists or listeners into fans, right. That's what I did in radio for so many years and part of that process. This is exactly what we're talking about here. Because when you lean on sympathy and empathy, when you lean on that golden rule, when you are able to mesh the employee customers and think of them all as fans, right, which they all mean. If you if your own employees are not your fans, you've got a big problem. But when you're able to do you that, what you create is an organic beast that can't be stopped, because the I'm using too many mixed metaphors here, but the rollercoaster takes on a life of its own right. So, and I'll give you all an example, for the past three and a half years now, not one single day has passed where someone, whether it's a customer or a past customer or just a random person I don't even know, has not spontaneously written about us on social media somewhere. So it's the idea of building that fandom. I often say I'm not in the business of making a sale, I'm in the business of making evangelists love. What is Um? Is it really just attitudinal and mindset in treating others well, like what are the what are a couple other components to turn someone who says, you know, I like it, it's good, it's helpful, versus I can't not write about this, I can't not tell other people about it. Like there are a couple of things. Dry Vets, flip of the switch. You're asking the smart questions. Um, so there are a few things. Number one is sort of brutal, brutal honesty, and you know, I call it lack of edit. So my edit button is kind of broken and I just say it how it is and what's valuable. There is, again, you know, when you're able to do that, you give other people that pretty much them to do the same, whether it's a customer telling you the good, the bad and the ugly, which is of course what you want, right, or your own employees being telling you like, dude, this does not work, what's wrong with you? Right, and so that's part of the culture that you're building, for sure. But you know, even more specifically, we do all kinds of little, teeny things that up. So here's one. When we are targeting a customer and certainly when they become a customer, there now in our network, in our social network. So Katie, for my team finds out who they are on social she follows all of them on behalf of our brand. But it's more than that. Now she's at of Lee sharing their content as well, because we have a vested interest in your success. And, Oh, double bonus, we get to watch how you use the product and can see, I mean we know usually in advance if someone's going to turn because we can see them not having success and we can hopefully jump in and be like hey, there, try to do this please, or how can we help you? Um. So that's one way. You know other ways are you know, I make a lot of mistakes Ethan. I'm human and I feel when I make the mistakes with my team, I feel terrible, of course, because I rely on them the most. They're my most trusted people and sometimes it's like family members, you know, where you're not on your best behavior because there's the wonder and joy and being able to have your guard down right, and so I don't often put on my best self to them, and what I love about them is they mostly tolerate it or they mostly don't react right. Those are my feet all, but then...

...once in a while I know when I pushed them too far and I may not be great at catching it preventing it, but I'm great at knowing that I've done it, you know, and apologizing. Or if I don't apologize, I tried to find some other way to like boost them up, you know, because even for me it's hard to apologize. But you know, those are this some ways, I think, and the other really important ways to share with both customers and your employees all the things. Right. So, all of our salaries are open. You can ask me any time, I don't really care. We have an open vacation policy and nobody ever takes a vacation. I literally have to tell them. Hello, you need a sanity break, let's roll here. Um, which is amazing to me. We have like kind of uh, I say this with our customers. We often asked them for not only for feedback, but like we send them brownies when they have done something extra special. Foots in a while someone will just in. It's random where there's no like guide of what it is. Obviously like, Oh hey, kristen, like send Jim Farland Brownie. She deserves them today. They're just so awesome. Um. So we just kind of think of little ways to enforce that golden rule. In a way that's surprising. Um. And like the other thing too with customer service, and sorry for ramping, is it's a lot about we have this conversation a lot. Right. So, if I treat every customer like an enterprise customer, which is how we do it, it's hard to explain that to investors. You can't scale that. We know this, right, we do know this, but we do it anyways because the long tail benefit, it's already proven to make us win. Right. So I'm a little tiny company and I have a percent sales conversion and we'll talk about more about why, but all the things we're saying are part of it, because I knew a long time ago that the way to win is through mark thing and starting, because it takes a long time to build a fandom, right, it does. You have to really dig in deep early on, and this is a mistake a lot of entrepreneurs make because if you build it, they don't come. That's not how it works. You have to put the time in and then you want to be able to touch and ask, ask people when you need them and have them come to your rescue, you know, in any way. And so if you're going about that mindset. Like there are times and we'll be talking about something in the product and my team will say like, well, I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't want that to be the case for me if my experience was like this, and I'm like, AH, okay, I'm trying to save a dime or something. You know. Yeah, so much good stuff in there, especially the focus on customer success, Um, identifying people that are not achieving what you need and want to achieve together and, Um, celebrating people who are a number of really great ideas in there. To catch folks up. Sure, a little bit about lately. Who's your ideal customer? What are some of the problems that you sold for them? Sure, so lately, as you mentioned, uses artificial intelligence to really discover what words, phrases and ideas are resonating with your target audience and then it builds a personal writing model just for you or your brand and once you have the model, you feed it long form content, so like this video, for example, or the audio or even a blog, and it'll digest the long form content and break it up and pull out the quotes that contain the ideas and messages that knows, we'll get you the highest flix comments and shares. So, Oh my God, what was the question? Um, tell us about your customer and leave that into so they can know what a what a crazy person I am. Um. So the customer has usually two kinds of pain. One is the unlock of the long form content. So here I am. I've spent all this time creating a podcast and promoting it, and all the effort. I mean you, I'm going to guess you probably put four hours into each episode at least. Right. Sounds absolutely vary.

Yes, okay, and same with like a blog or a newsletter. Like creating one form content is a labor of sorts. And so then, once you have it, most people will only publicize it once or twice, say on social okay, now I think of it like garlic. You work hard to get that beautiful nugget of golden goodness out and once I chop every little piece off, they all better make it into the pan. Right. So, once we take your long form content and chop it up, say I'll give you forty social posts from this particular video, why not lean on the long tail, as I've already demonstrated the great value there and run one promo every week for forty weeks. Right. So this is a mindset shift. Is What we're talking about a little bit as well, because most people this is shocking. are like well, why would I promote it more than once? And are like okay, so in radio we used to play you a song upwards of three times a week, hoping you'll hear it just once. And social is the same way. Like the chances of me scrolling through your feed at the moment, you know, is random more or less. The other thing, too, to always consider is and when. I'll get back to the customer question. Is, Um, the old marketing adage. Remember, it used to be seven times that you had to rewatch or here brand to have it sink in. Now it's about twelve or fourteen times. Okay, so if you are just publicizing anything once or twice, you might as well be winking in the dark. Get it everyone. Okay. So our customer base does span from small, medium to large. On the large side, it's because there's a syndication capability inside lately that lets one person push out the AI generated content to any employee channel across the ECOSPHERE. So for social selling teams, for executive thought leadership or employee advocates super so this idea of taking a large piece and turning it into multiple pieces. Obviously that's something would be very time consuming. I think a human would be doing a lot of guessing. Talk about that blend between the people and the machines, because this isn't exclusively I'm going to, you know, post everything that the machine creates for me. Talk about that relationship. This is our biggest challenge, Ethan, which is amazing to me. I mean, so what lately does? It's freaking amazing, right, it really is. But it's not enough because for some reason there's this bizarre like black fog around marketing and people just want to push a button and have the magic happen. Now, Ai is not magic, and I hate to say this because I do reread Harry Potter every summer. Magic also doesn't exist. You know, I would never tell my on your old niece that. But so what I'm trying to say is that a human is required to light up the AI. It has to learn from something. So when it first meets you, and we're starting at square one now. That's not exactly true, because we've built in a bunch of fail safes too. That are my best practices personally. I mean, if I have a sales conversion, why wouldn't you want the same thing? So it'll start learning from me in combination with you. But the idea is that the human has to interact with every piece the AI spits out. First reason is for legality purposes. In order to publish on facebook or twitter, linked in or instagram. Um, they prevent a robot doing it for you. A human has to intervene. Number One. Um, number two, it's for this learning component. Now you know what are Ai does, is it? It registers everything you do, every word, you remove, every word, you add every Hashtag at mentioned, everything you publish or don't publish. Like this, how it's learning. And we were just talking yesterday about this...

...uphill battle because people still don't want to do this work right, and we were thinking about, and I wonder what you think about, sort of trying to rebrand a little bit and not be artificial intelligence, but to think of a way to communicate human ficial intelligence, which is like not a good word. What is that? You know, is amplified intelligence. Nails a little heady to me. But how can we, how can we get people to understand from the get go that work is required so they're not disappointed. Yeah, it's so funny. I sell against the idea of magic all of the time. You know, Bombom, all the time, because you know, people think that video is that. So we at Bombom Wimikias to record and send video messages in place of what would otherwise typically be faceless typed out text for variety benefits and and so often people think that video is the solution. So, in fact it's the reason Steve R CMO and I wrote Human Center communication is that, like video isn't about video. Video is about the other person and what they need and want. And if you can meet them more than halfway, you're gonna make it easier for them to say yes and you're gonna get what you want by giving them what they want. And video is just a more personal and human way to connect and communicate, you know, whatever the opportunity is. And so but people think, well, you know, I recorded this video and I sent it. Why didn't it get open? Well, this person wasn't expecting to hear from you. It isn't for them or about them. Your subject line sucks, like all these things, they just think like domatic or something. So it's funny. I actually think it's I don't know that you need a new word to get at this idea, that that humans and machines should work together, although you and I both you know, from time we spend on social see the death of this, the death of that and these kinds of things, and the answer is always both, and it's not dead, it's modified. And so you know, with this idea of both and being the solution into most problems. I see that here too, and it's just a matter of communicating it up front so that people don't have the expectation of magic and then they're disappointed when they have to actually engage with the material that the machine produces. You are my new favorite person, by the way, like I can't believe it's so validating to hear you talk about all these things and and just the phrase like I've been selling against magic right, like I can't wait to share that with my team because it's so frustrating. You know, it's just this this idea of even with what you guys do, I mean we, we just got you seventy five percent of the way there by clicking a button. What more do you want from me? Are you kidding me as when this really gets to from an experiential standpoint, it's just about setting and managing expectations? Um, and you're not and you'RE gonna wind up with people. I know we have where you'RE gonna wind up with people. That isn't enough. I was expecting a hundred and like okay, this is not for you. And you know talk about the engagement layers. You know that a number. I've heard you say before. It's like a hundred improvement and engagement on average. I think you have a case study with Gary Vayner Chuck's social that's something like twelve percent. Is this? My intuition is that, um, it's a blend of more and better. Right. So this idea of promoting something forty times instead of one, you know, in forty different ways, but then also better, and that these fourty are selected for a particular reason. It's based on your past history of performances. That kind of the Combo. Absolutely. So what's interesting too, about the forty? It's not only just the quantity, but because we're giving you forty different ways to promote the single thing and they look different and you can actually even populate different images if you want to, across each forty like you can upload a Bank of photos and they would sprinkle them throughout, rotate them. The customers will either re share multiple posts or comment on multiple because this it's different to them, right. So you're giving them...

...multiple access points to your to your content, to your overall your overall call to action. It's like, here's a great metaphor. I got to use this, I just thought of it. So I met a friend. I was at my brother's wedding in Moile. We were talking about last week and his best man arrived a day early to take a fly fishing lesson and the instructor attached three different visit Bait, three different baits, at the same time to each line, one for each stage of the of larvae that it would be in, so we'd have three times the chance of cooking on the first time. And actually, as the guy was going back to like start reeling and dipped his line in the water before it actually cast it this way, he caught this first fish right there right. So you're your three exiting in that case, the chances of, you know, fish on. So it's a really similar idea um and then, you know, the more you put in, in Gary's case, or Gary has content coming out of his years and nose and eyebrows, right. So that's a big part of it, because the AI gets to learn even more. One of the experiments we had done with him Ethan too, as we I mean he he has an army, like this is somebody who has people. So we wanted to see, like what was that parallel of what the AI would pull versus the human, and it was parallel. So you know, it's it's very good at cottoning onto just enough of a teaser to get someone to click or share and lean forward. Right. This is this is what you and I are trying to do all day long, is to and this goes back to your point. I think that that people kind of miss with like video being the end all magic is the video. The objective is not a sale. It's never the sale. You've got to start at the beginning, right. So the first objective is react, right, react, then. So so in the case of email, right, just open the damn thing, right, and then the next thing is either click or reply. So you have to take them one at a time and I think people you know, in my world, I'm in the startup industry and it's very there's the the there's a romantic metaphor, which is like get her number right. That's that's what they say. Now this is lost on me because, like, I'm kind of a straight to the point girl, you know, and so, like I'm always going straight for the sale. That's my nature and I had to learn this behavior that we're talking about here because, you know, people need to trust you first. The trust is the thing and they're not going to react or click or open or call you or investing you if they don't trust you first. And the way to do that is everything you had said. And then we we've previously talked about, which is about the it's like likability as part of it. It's the golden rule, it's the empathy, it's the curiosity. You know, when people talk about social media and they think it's bullshit, it's because they're not understanding. And the point isn't tell me what how much cereal you've had or what brand right. The point is to first think about why you would tell me what your serial is right. What? What's the objective that you're going to back into here? And I'll break this down. Excuse me for talking so much radio DJ right, it can't help it, but I'll break this down. On social it's so easy. Ready, guys, there's only two things, two objectives on social click or share. That's it. So if you thought and if you have that in your mind, every social post you right as you're writing it, you're going to think, what do I want people to do? Okay, I want people to share this. So what in this is really easy. People share what makes them...

...look smart. It is about ego. It's like the reason people keep a greeting card around, right. It's like in college when someone tells you about a great album and then you share it with someone else, you now get the credit of being the tastemaker. So people look good when you make them look good, and that's what they're looking for with to share. So it's really easy. That's why those one liners are the best. Right, the greeting cards, its statements are really are a part of that. So if you're breaking down what makes those you know it's not like do onto others. It's not hey, maybe you should try do onto others. It's do unto others. A statement. Right. So you think about how to break that down. Now on the click side, for smaller businesses it's very hard to get clicks because so much trust has to be there and you don't have the brand recognition, except with how to content. So if you have a how to video or a how to blog like those are big ones where everybody almost always clicks, and the reason is because there's a is a built in question with how to. Well, how to and the why can only be resolved if you click to find out. So that plays upon your psychology. It's a little it's tricksy. See that right? Yeah, and the value and the benefit is baked into it. To your point, it's for me when when I you know, we do a lot of business with small business like you, I mean from small business to, you know, some of the largest companies on earth and everywhere in between. And in our earliest days we're doing a ton of business with small businesses and entrepreneurs. And when I would coach them on email marketing in particular, because email is kind of at the core of what we did out of the gates, but with video integrated in, I always taught around frequently asked questions for the same idea it's like you already know that people want to know. You're tired of answering the same question over and over again. Make a video, put it into your answer several questions on a youtube playlist. Make separate blog post for them in this case. Spin it out a variety of ways in content. Let's talk a little bit about great small business in particular, and where I am in my head is like, obviously, the more data the better, right. You referred to Gary Vaynerchuk and like the this, this insane volume of content, the insane volume of people, Um, the insane volume of interaction. So there's just like a better more salaries. How, like how much is enough in terms of reaction and data for someone to get value out of Um, the way the way the machine is learning and recommending based on feedback, like, like how much is enough? Yeah, so, actually, you can start with nothing, and this is the fail safe we've we've brought in so so. So how the AI works is, first, it's studying your analytics to twitter, instagram, facebook, Linkedin, whenever you give us access to and it looks back for a year of data and it's studying the post that got the highest engagement and it breaks down those messages by sentence structure and keywords and ideas, and that's your custom right, and model that it now uses to assess your long farm content. Right. But if you don't have back data, so if you're a new being, you're just starting out, it goes to phase two and then three and then four. So it starts with me. I write all my social myself. Lately doesn't write it. It's me, because lately is studying me as a best practice, because I was a fiction writing Major. I wrote thousands of radio commercials and I have an I D percent sales conversion, so it's a good benchmark, right. I then took apart basically how I write in the same way we were just talking about, you know, breaking down statements, for example, and looking at what are the patterns that create conversion copy, and I created two dozen rules and I taught my whole team those rules. So whatever the AI spits out for the marketing team, they then apply those rules. And now lately study everything. That studies everything that comes out of our brand messaging, as well as a second layer. And then the third layer is all of our customers. So we have a data that's five years and going now from thousands of people,...

...you know, learning those best practices. Super I love it. By the way, bonus points. I spent Um twelve years in local broadcast television and, like you in radio, have written thousands of pieces of short form copy to like get in essence and to drive behavior, and I was totally understood. I totally understood the skills in the muscles built around that to myself until I started going and doing other work. It's just super helpful to have that. That's amazing and I wanted to interject right there. It's like English majors. We're having the last laugh right now, because I remember everybody Pooh pooed that as a study, because then what would you be in an author, they thought, or a teacher. These were things that people did not think very highly of when I was growing up. And now everybody wants the skill set that you just described right, because even even video has to be promoted in writing. Yeah, Andy, and even the way it's Ructure, like what are you saying? I mean this is another reason why it's not magic. People just, you know, go off the cuff stream of consciousness videos and assume that it's going to be useful. For people or that people want to follow your stream of consciousness rather than putting a little bit of effort into structure in a way that's going to be meaningful to other people. And of course, the same goes for social posts. Let's go high level, because you've done uh, you know, actually, you know what? Let's let's step back to the early days of lately. First, anything you want to share about the name is interesting to me personally. I'm just kind of curious. And then and then to like what was going on at the time where you and your other co founder or co founders said let's do this. Yeah, so the original name of lately came because we couldn't figure out how to build what we had intended to build in the very beginning, and so we started looking at so for Walmart, I had built them a spreadsheet system. Inside each spreadsheet was the series of worksheets, and so lately first was all those sheets together. Each worksheet was a feature inside the product. Okay, one of the things that I had done for Walmart was kind of like what you guys remember, clout? Remember that? Yeah, okay, so like cloud, but for people. So cloud was for brands to assess the you know, engagement potential of a brand, and then we had the idea of well, what's the engagement potential of individuals? And so for Walmart, I would identify influencers on twitter and we were tagging them in hopes that they would reshare our content. Now you wouldn't quite do that. Now it's a little ball face, but we also do that in combination with our own influencers. I mean we had like the top execs at Walmart on the project. So why wouldn't they share our content and see what happened? Right. So the idea of around the name was what have you done for me lately, specifically right, like have you reshared my message lately? Then it became you know, your marketing is only as good as what you've done lately, because every day is really a new day. But now more, I tell people. Until until he just got very weird around covid but Um, you know I'm a van Morrison Fan. So there's that song. Have I told you I loved you lately? Um, but you can have Janet Jackson if you like. My team, by the way, Ethan, they call me Katelee, in case you're wondering. That makes sense. Um. So you've asked about the origin story. You know, I don't know if this is the case for you and your listeners, but I love a good catalyst because I'm often not even aware of what I'm doing or, like you had said, not even aware of the value of what you're doing. Maybe you're underselling your own your own skill set, and so I've found that in my life throughout, other people have had to come along and be like, dude, this is awesome, and that's what happened. I had my spreadsheet system and my friend Steve, someone I had met, became a friend and he came from...

...the world of tech and had multiple exits and it was a serial entrepreneur and an angel investor and was like, you know, we can just take your spreadsheets and automate them and create wire frames. And I I didn't know what he was saying, Ethan, all the language was foreign to me, of course, you know. And so he pulled together twenty dollars of his own money, because I was in shock. I was like, I'm a rock and roll DJ, I eat Raman and Tubuck Chuck, I don't have dollars, you know, and he built the wire frames and introduced me to Jason, who's another Co founder, and you know, you would think we were often running, but what we first did was we raised two fifty dollars that year, me and Jason, on on a on a deck which were now in the four thousand version, of course, right, and on ideas. We had nothing to show really, and not to make this too long of a story, but we we had like so many failures with ct o s who either got lost to cocaine or suicidal depression or just like, you know, terrible, and we still had nothing to show for some years and then suddenly I was able to raise a good chunk of money. And then it's like, you know, if you watch Silicon Valley, this is my life. It's like every episode there's some amazing success and you're like, Oh my God, we did it, and then it's in the toilet and you're crying because you can't even believe it. So it's the ratio was more like one to four on that one, maybe one to seven. You know, as Chris, my head of sales, says, he says someone asked him on that podcast what startup life like and he said it's awful, awful, awful, oh, some good news. Yeah, it's definitely messy and it never goes the way you want. We've been at it for a decade and it's you know, it all makes sense in hindsight, but that's about all you can say about it. You know. It's just about the next right step each day. Yeah, and and to have the great on you, by the way, to have the stamina to get up every day, because you get punched in the face every day. Right, and you have to like it or love it in some way. There's some addiction here. You know what? What I love is that I know all the puzzle pieces are in front of me. I have no doubt about that. It's a magic it's a matter of seeing how to put them together. You know, sometimes I can see it, sometimes I need the catalyst or my team. Sometimes I need to eat a bunch of glass first before I'm going to have the perspective, right. Yeah, yeah, and it's Um, you know, sometimes the picture itself staying with the Puzzle Metaphor of the picture itself changes or can change next together in a completely different way. Um, that's your skill set as the leader right to know that totally. So you mentioned earlier this idea. Well, it's a little bit bold to tag people that really don't have a lot to do with the post. Give us a high level, I mean you've obviously been attuned to social for years. Um, give us a little bit of a high level like what are some things that people still aren't getting right, besides perhaps not using ai to support them and creating greater variety and more on ramps into engagement and conversation, Um, and and maybe what are a couple of like dramatic changes from, you know, your earliest days? I mean, obviously it evolves all the time. You know, we're recently, I don't want to date the episode, but recently saw some headlines about, you know, Tiktok traffic or time spent or something eclipsing YouTube. Like these things are kind of shifting in general all the time. Like what are what are a couple things that you wish more people were getting right? And what are maybe a couple of high level shifts that you've seen or perhaps even that you're anticipating? Sure, so the biggest one, the easiest one, is hashtags. So the traditional way of using a Hashtag is to think of it as an index or for searching right and to toss a string of...

...them along the end of your message, and that's a bit lazy, to be honest. And what's morphed in our AI actually shows this, because we surface word clouds of hashtags that work for your audience, for you, is that the hashtags that instead end up augmenting or enhancing an idea and do it in a way that are made up especially, send the engagement skyrocketing. And the reason is because, guess what, there's a human voice there. So an example is my personal highest performing Hashtag is Hashtag peeing my pants, because that's what I said when Gary Vaynerchick treated about us. Right. Not everyone can get away with that, but it's something really worth thinking about, because you just imagine again doing others. When's the last time you went to twitter and typed into Hashtag? Probably was worn Ukraine, maybe maybe it was Johnny Depp, but it's usually for like a live news story. It's not for the kind of marketing that you and I and most of our customers are doing, because we're not in the business of live news, right, and the content that you're creating and then I'm creating is actually just as relevant today as it will be in two or three years. We know this right. People will still search. That's that long tail that we're banking on. So that's the second point to your message, to your question, is there's a mind shift in and I'm wondering how much longer it's going to take for people to really cotton onto this because the dinosaur enterprise companies are so slow in this one. But Marketing is no longer a butts and seats activity. Right, if you're in if you're promoting a live event, good luck, Charlie right. It's really so much easier to get the eyeballs or the ears afterwards. So that's why this understanding of taking apart the content and using it as a drip feed after the fact, after that fact marketing gives you exponential value than that live in the moment. By the way, it's in parallel to how you digest content in your life, whether it's radio. Who listens to live radio, except for me anymore? Nobody. You know TV, you're you're binging shows when you want to, as much as you want. So marketing just has to kind of catch up with the way we're we're living our lives. I love it. Last thing I wanted to double, triple, quadruple back on is this nine, eight percent sales conversion. So the way I hear it and the way I read it is, you know, you you've set some priorities for yourself and your team. You've built into your team and equipped and empowered and supported your team to treat people in amazing ways, Um. And so my guess is that the vast majority of your Um sales conversions are coming from people who have already been sold before they're ever directly interacting with lately, because they're just saying nice things about it. Um. What did I miss there? And and you turn that into maybe a tip for someone that wants to grow their referral based business and be sold before they're ever in conversation with your sales people? You Bet. And I'll break it down in a way that anybody can do this, so you don't need ai to do it'll be a lot harder and slightly less effective, because this is what I did for Walmart. So here's what we do. We take every message. Let's just start from the beginning. I'm going to ask you for the file of this. I'm going to take the video and if I was doing it by hand. I would watch the whole thing, I would transcribe it and I would look for the interesting one liners that you or I say, the statements. Like we talked about before. My objective is share. So I'm looking for the things that are going to make other people look smart on Linkedin or twitter, because that's where my audience resonates the most. Right. What are thee the smart share ables here, those snack able bites, and then I'm going to break those down into a social post. I'm going to put a link to the full length of this video, driving traffic back to you and tag you. The reason I do that is because what you're going to re share my content. So there the benefit for me built in immediately now,...

...if I drip feed it out over time. So say I just published one of these every two weeks, the chances of your re sharing all of them are much higher than me vomiting them out all last week this week, because you're going to be like, okay, enough, Kate, you're overdoing it with me. Right, I could also strategically tag any other people we've talked about here, whether it's very Gary Vaynerchuk. I could Hashtag your book. Um, there's lots of different other plays I can make looking for that share and the content we're doing here. Once I have, let's say, forty social posts, then I'm going to do two things. I'm going to publish them on my brand channels, but also my employee channels, because we're stronger together. That's now I'm now I'm amplifying my old my own voice, with the scale that's right in front of me. It's right here. I don't need to pay anybody to do this right. The next thing we do is we watch to see who likes comments and shares or content, because, guess what, they're warm. I just met them, we know each other now. We've got a conversation already there. And my social media manager, Katie, she watches for those people and she dives right in. Hey Ethan, great to have you here. Thanks for the share. You know, Love, love that Patagonia jacket you're wearing and your head shot. I've got one in Green. So she's our conversation starter and we, in the case of enterprise, we then push you into a demo and to your point, by the time we get to you, you're hot. Right. In the case of our self, service for small businesses. We have a forty seven percent conversion right there. Industry averages like two, I think, believe, maybe less. Still Pretty High, but it's the same idea, right, like we're looking for content that will resonate with you and get you to react, and when you are reacting, you're you're a warm lead. Yeah, and it's all conversationally based into the point that you mentioned. You know, it's like they've already met you and there's this kind of CO creation, Co Promotion, like real conversation. Final piece, which leads me to a couple other episodes, by the way, if you've enjoyed this conversation with Kate as much as I have, check out one thirty five of this podcast with Ali Biggs. She's a senior director of product marketing at Intercom, and we call that creating conversational relationships with thousands of customers, this idea that you can engage with people at scale. You know, it's this challenging thing. How do we go out into the world where there are lots of different people? Obviously almost anyone could use lately, from an individual to, you know, the largest companies on earth? How do we engage those folks, and so we talk a little bit about that with Ali on episode one thirty five, and then a little bit more recently on one seventy one, with Michelle Lesowski, the global director of B Two B marketing at Uber. I thought of this episode in particular because, you know, I couldn't not ask her about disruption. And I don't think kate that you see lately is like a disruptive technology, but you really have walked us through a completely different mindset about how we can and should be doing social going forward, Um, and so her key message there was, like you know, Uber is not about disruption, even though it's a word associated with us all the time. We are one about improving the experience for customers, and so if we use that as our North Star, odds are we're probably going to disrupt the status quo in some way. Uh. And I feel like, in a way, whether you think about it that way or not, kately lately is Um. So, before I let you go, I'm gonna give you two opportunities that I give everyone, and I always enjoy these moments. Um. I'd love for you to thank or mentioned someone who has had a positive impact on your life or your career and then give a not or a shout out to a company or brand that you personally appreciate for the experience that they deliver for you as a customer. Thanks, Lauren. She's my CEO, she's my right hand woman. Of all the things. She raised her hand a couple of years ago and said, you know, there's a lot of guys in power on your team and I feel like there should be some more women. And she came from Um, I think she was doing like customer service and sales at the mall and and she hasn't actually a master's degree in psychology analytics, which is so fascinating...

...to me. And I took her to sap Sapphire and there were seventy five people in the room. We Demo too, and Lauren sold fifty one of them in two hours. So there's someone who raised her hand and I listened and I'm so proud of her, and I hate to say that because she's my peer, because I don't want to, you know, sound like her mom, but I'm very, very proud of the fact that she wanted to do it and she she she lit it up. You know, I love it. The second question was a brand experience I've had that that you think is, yeah, a company or brand that you that you know the same way a lot of your customers talk about lately. You know, what are some what's a company or brand that you just really appreciate and maybe offer to people in an unsolicited manner? Let's see. Um, well, it's not going to be very exciting because now I'm I'm just thinking so quickly, but I love I love Southwest Airlines. Um, they always respond very quickly and they always go over and above whatever it is. Right. So they're not like well, here's a fifty dollar credit, here's a hundred fifty dollar credit. I've sent my team actually chats that I've had with them because I was like, please replicate this and what we're doing this person. They're so empathetic, Ethan, which is pretty that is so hard to do, like we have some tricks that we use, like Gosh, I'm so sorry that your experienced this. You know, it's like Kelly from the office, like she's teaching you to say the word like I'm sorry, over and over and over again and to not defend your your own product, which is really hard to do. Um. So I respect that they continue to do that and and I learned from them. I steal from them all the time. Awesome. I really appreciate that you used the word love in that context, and that is not the first time that someone has mentioned southwest at this moment of the show. They're doing a lot of things right Um, Kate. If people have enjoyed this, and if they're listening at this point, they obviously did. Um, we would you direct them to connect with you and or to learn more about lately. Thank you so much, Ethan. I met lately Ai Katelee on twitter, so please let me know that you've met me through Ethan. That'd be great, and I'm very friendly and I'm pretty funny too, so I'm a good follow lately. Is Dub DUB DUB dutle Lee dot AI. We're nice people. We're you know, we do have an ID pcent sales commercial, so beware, if you do interact with us, you could be next, but otherwise we're just friendly. We're in for the chat. It's awesome. Thank you so much. I'll link all that up. We write these up. We put in video highlights and a short write up including the full conversation as well. At bomb bomb dot com slash podcast, so check that out, Kate. Thank you so much. Have an awesome afternoon and thanks for anything you shared here. Thank you. As we've learned time and again here on the podcast, the essence of customer experience and of employee experience is how we make people feel. But so much of the experience relies on digital communication, on faceless, typed out text. To connect and communicate more effectively with the people who matter most to your success, add some video emails and video messages to mix. Save time, add clarity, convey sincerity, be seen, heard and understood and make other people feel seen, heard and understood. Try saying thank you, good job or congratulations with a video. Try answering a question with a video. Try introducing yourself with a video. Try It free at bomb bomb dot com. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player or visit bomb bomb dot com slash podcast.

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