The Customer Experience Podcast
The Customer Experience Podcast

Episode 156 · 9 months ago

156. An Actor’s Guide to Authentic Videos w/ Julie Hansen

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

If you’ve been on a video call lately (and hasn’t everyone?), you’ve probably noticed how disengaged, distracted, or disconnected everyone is.

This is partly because we’re all operating under the mistaken belief that virtual and in-person are one and the same, except that one just has a camera. Not so.

In this episode of our Human-Centered Connection expert series, Steve Pacinelli and I interview Julie Hansen, Founder and Sales Presentation Expert at Performance Sales and Training, about video skills for virtual communication excellence. 

Julie talked with us about:

  • How much influence sales has over customer experience
  • Why video skills are like acting skills
  • How to speak to a virtual group as if they’re an individual
  • What best video practices are
  • How to improve your video presence over time

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What a shout from the roof tops is. No, this is you know, this is not as good as it gets right. It can be so much better and and I think people have misunderstood the concept of being virtual and being in person as one in the same one just has a camera on, and that that just simply isn't the case. If you want to really connect with your audience, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Learn how sales, marketing and customer success experts create internal alignment, achieved desired outcomes and exceed customer expectations in a personal and human way. This is the customer experience podcast. Here's your host, Ethan Butte. Hey, welcome back to the customer experience podcast. Thanks so much for listening. You are in the middle with us here of a great series that we're doing this summer. Two big things that we're doing in the series. First, I'm joined by my longtime friend team member, CMO At bombomb, coauthor with me on two books. The first was rehumanize Your Business, then new book, human set of Communication. Steve and I got together and brought in eleven of our expert friends, and so that's the second part. We're interviewing all eleven of them in complimentary these are not redundant to what we what we did with them in the book. They're all new conversations and so we just thought would be fun to take it over for the summer. Steve, who is joining us today, well as always Ethan. We are excited with our guests today. The guests I'm about to introduces cause Ethan and I to really challenge our beliefs on what being authentic really means. We had one way of looking at it and following Julie and listening to Julie, she really challenged that belief that we had and offered a new perspective which Ethan and I really like. She has a unique background and sales training as well as acting, and she blends those two together seamlessly and effectively. In our training she's the founder of sales presentation expert, the author of several books, which will get it to a little bit later, and a master of selling through video. So I want to welcome Julie Hanson to our show today. Welcome Julie Gosh. Can you introduce me? Everywhere, Steve It's probably available. Yes, I doubt it, but thank you. I'm so happy to be here with you guys. Yeah, thank you so much again for all the time you gave us. We did a deep interview with you that informed a chapter in the new book. We're looking forward to sharing that with people. We also appreciate you coming back to have this conversation and we're we're going to start Julie's where we start with all of our guests here on this podcast, which is customer experience. When I say that, what does it mean to you? The first thing that comes to mind for me is my first introduction to that. You're of those two words. And it and it was a book that I think has been mentioned on one of your you know, by one of your earlier guests, and the podcast, the experience economy, and I read that, you know, I think it came out twenty years ago, but I read it probably, you know, twelve years ago. And well, first of all, I love the subtitle because it says work is theater and every business is stage. So I'm a big proponent of that. And these are, you know, Harvard Business Grads. They're not like acting times, you know. So I thought that was very profound and I think it was very pressing. And at the time I was talking about we're moving from, you know, this exchange of services and goods to what is the experience around that? What are the feelings that were creating with our customer? And so certainly we were on the edge of that twenty years ago and now we are well into, you know, the experience economy, and so I think in terms of customer experience, it's what our customers feeling, what are they walking away with, because hopefully we've all gotten away from that idea that sales is a very logical process and that's how people make decisions...

...and you know it's taken a long time to break free of that, but you know, that's that's my thoughts on customer experience. Really good. I like a couple things that you did there in particular. First, obviously, leaning into feeling. I think that's exactly right and it is to the point of the book. I think the way it's become manifest it's funny how long it's taken. I mean we've only been doing the show for two years. I guess I could have probably start a couple of years earlier, but much earlier than that, I don't think the idea had really taken hold. So they definitely were very forward looking. I think the way it's manifest now is that that feeling, and this is the other part I liked about what you did. What we leave customers with when they walk away from a moment or an experience or a transaction or a product interaction or a service experience? What are they left with? What are they walk away with? That emotional residence piece that becomes our greatest point of competition and differentiation and, like a crazy, hyper competitive market which most of US operate in. One quick follow up for you on on customer experience in particular. What do you think a salesperson's roll or responsibility is with regard to the customer experience? Oh, cash, I think it's huge. I mean a lot of times they are the only interaction someone has with your company, right, so I think it's vital that they're clear on, you know, the what their role is in creating those feelings and creating that experience. Whatever entry level someone gets in front of your company with, whether it's a you know, somebody doing prospecting outreach or, you know, the salesperson or the pre sales person. Yeah, I think it just it's all got to be lined up today to really be congruent. You know, if you get any kind of missteps along that that path, you know, people have a you know, have have an opportunity to rethink their relationship. Let's get people a little bit of background about you and the books that you put out. You authored a few books, sales presentations for dummies. act like a sales pro they make sure I get the the new title right here. It looked me in the eye. Using video to build relationships with customers, partners and teams as the brand new book. Talk about the process and the motivation to write your new book. Well, you know the it started as a see right after, you know, with when the pandemic hit, because as an actor, I really watched with interest and curiosity as people adapted to this virtual world without any training whatsoever about being in front of the camera and and I saw them struggle with all the things I struggled with as an actor when I transition from stage to, you know, being in front of a camera without any of the tools, and so, you know, I developed this masterclass to help people navigate that transition and then I've just been coaching sales team, sales people, you know, Tho thousand sales people over the past, you know, fourteen, fifteen months and realized, just made more aware of all the challenges that the people are facing and it's sort of evolved into okay, we're on video now and it's, you know, I kind of got the techniques down, I've got the mechanics down, but they're just feeling like, good grief, is this all there is? I mean, you know, it's just it's unfulfilling on both sides of the screen and you know, I feel like my my role here, and I want to shout from the rooftops, is no, this is you know, this is not as good as it gets right. It can be so much better and and I think people have misunderstood the concept of being virtual and being in person as one in the same one just has a camera on, and that that just simply isn't the case if you want to really connect with your audience. So it's really come from this place of how do I build a relationship virtually right, because that's really what it's all about for most salespeople right...

...now. It's like how do I build a relationship. And, Oh, by the way, nobody talks on video anymore, like the the customers are so passive, and so it becomes a very painful process for a salesperson that doesn't know how to navigate that world. Yes, so I love that language, this idea that the pandemic forced us to get all the mechanics right, but we're still very mechanical passive. I think is another really great observation about the way a lot of people are showing up these days. You know, originally I kind of wanted to ask, like, when will video stop being about video itself, I think it still is for a lot of people, and be more about what it should be about, and I know that all three of us agree on this, and I'm sure listeners would too, is relationships. We are a couple. I mean, without getting into all the details, what are a couple like? High level things that you wish more people could experience in a positive way, whether it's as a viewer of a video call or a video message or as someone who is showing up on video. Like how can we make some of those steps away from being mechanical to being more relationship oriented on either side of the screen. Just a few practical tips people can take away. Sure you know, for me it's all about in the book is all about how do we create that near in person experience? I mean, certainly it's never going to be one in the same, but we can get a lot closer. We can close that virtual gap quite a bit more than what we're seeing. And the name of the book is look me in the eye for a reason, because eye contact is one of the ways that we quickly build relationships. And you know, if you've been on a zoom call today, you know that it's severely lacking on any calls and that's because it's not easy, right. It's you have to look at the camera and the camera always isn't always in, you know, an ideal place to do that, and that means you can't read body language. And so I talked about how to work with the camera and how to adapt to the cameras world and not just expected to be like your world. And it's you know, there's there's techniques that go along with that. It's not something anybody is really born knowing how to do. So expecting yourself to be good at it is putting a big burden on yourself. Awesome. So let's go back. This is something we like drove by very quickly in our previous conversation and in the book. I would love to have you give more context, in more detail, kind of about the arc where you learned all of this. So, you know, I'll just do the quick version and then I would love for you to fill it in. Like my quick version is. You're in some sales rolls. You looked around. You may be observed that other people seemed more confident or self assured than you did. At some point it occurred to you that acting classes might be a good way to build some of that confidence and self assurance, and so you did that. It went well. You realize the parallels between the two and you were often running as a salesperson and a professional actor, and of course both of those blend together today into being someone who can advise people on being more effective in a commercial or revenue oriented capacity on video, because that's the blending of the two. But take us back, like take us back into some of those sales rules. What were you selling? What was the sales process like? Who are your customers and what were you feeling as a salesperson? That led you to pursue acting and then maybe take it from there. Sure, Gosh, you're just flooding me with memories. You know, I started out as a buyer, so I understand that customer experience ants right, because I had tons of sales people calling on me and, frankly, the reason I got into sales was because buying was kind of boring. You knows, and it says, a salesperson you get to meet all kinds of people. They drew up nicer cars than I did. Just look it look like a lot of fun.

What I didn't anticipate making the transition into sales was just the psychological toll it would take to be constantly dealing with rejection. Right, when you're a buyer, everybody takes your call right, everybody will see you your you know, King of the hill, and suddenly you're in sales and it's a different story. And so I don't know why I didn't know that would happen, but it was. It was a bit of a shock to the system, and so one thing that acting really helped me do was to think of myself not just as Oh my gosh, they're rejecting me, but, like, you know, this is my role as a salesperson. It's not me as a person that they're rejecting, right, it's just, you know, this product isn't right. Is You know, when as an actor you deal with lots of rejection and they're frankly, they're rejecting you. They're not rejecting your product or service because you are the product or service. So what you can handle that. You know people don't like your product or service. It's like, okay, I'm not going to take that personally. So it did help from that sense, and just being able to get up in front of people and be vulnerable was helpful, I think, for sales, because I think it sales really good sales. People are vulnerable, right, they let us see who they are, and that's one thing that you know, is missing a lot on video is people are very, very closed up, and so we don't get that and that's why connections are are suffering. When did it occur to you that that acting classes might be helpful for you for this? Maybe take us inside and acting class, like I'm not sure what goes hot in an acting class, and and then maybe talk a little bit about the parallel between, you know, getting a close as a salesperson. I mean, do you alluded to it? They're getting closes a salesperson versus getting a close as a an actor trying to get a role. Sure, sure, well, you know, I didn't know what went on in acting classes either, you know. So it was a it was a mystery to me. But it was so free because the thing that I really liked about it was, and I think Tina Fay says this about Improv like there are there are no mistakes right, they're just beautiful accidents, and so everything is a an exploration and you know, when rehearsals it's not like Oh, you didn't do that right, it's like, okay, want you to try this. Right are you know, you're always trying things and it's just very, very free. So you learn to open up and express yourself and what works and what doesn't work and and how to it's all about, you know, acting is really about relationships. It's about your relationship with that other scene partner and it's very much about what is my intention that I'm trying to communicate to this person? And if I'm very clear on this, and this is one thing that really helped me in sales if I'm clear, if I'm focused on how I want you to feel, because acting is very active. It's like I always want somebody to feel something right or to experience something. I'm not thinking about, Oh how do I feel? And Oh, I'm nervous, and are they do they like me? It just puts you right smack in the moment and that's where you have to be. That's where relationships flourish, right, is when you're present and you're able to kind of put yourself in the back seat. So that was very instrumental to some of the techniques that I developed for, you know, presentations and and pitches. I think in terms of what I learned as an actor, that really is relevant to being on video was interesting, and I didn't know it at the time, but I was on camera and I was supposed to be like just infatuated with this other actor who I'd met like ten minutes before the show, right. So it was it was a challenge itself, and so the director kept saying it. Kept doing...

...my lines and he'd say, you know, he'd stopped me and he's say, you know, you just you don't look like, you don't look that happy, and I'd be like well, well, I am, you know, poot and just be insistent that I was. And and finally said let me record it take and so we recorded it and they said come over here. Went over, looked at the you know, review the recording. Sure enough, I looked almost angry right. I mean I thought I was smiling, I thought I looked happy, and when I learned was you know, the director said something really interesting. He said it doesn't matter if you feel it if the camera doesn't see it. And you know, that's that is a lot of what's going wrong in video today is I feel like I'm looking at you on the screen, so therefore you must feel that. Well, I don't, because you're not looking me in the eye through the camera. Or I feel like I'm smiling, but it's not being communicated on your face, so I'm not getting that from you. So that really was pivotal. And you know what I thought about all the things going on in video that you know are problematic and why why we have this when I got broken communication loop, because we think we're expressing something, we feel like we're doing something, the customer doesn't receive receive something entirely different, and then we're we're a gas that it didn't land properly or we're getting no reaction. So I didn't realize, you know, ten years ago, this would be really important as we go, you know, in this virtual selling world. But it's absolutely no foundational so you asked yourself back and that particular story and you saw what other people we were seeing as an actor, and then take that into as a sales professional as well. How often should people be evaluating their body of work and watching themselves back? Yeah, that's a great questions. First of all, nobody likes to watch themselves on video. I'm sure you probably know that, but even as an actor I'd be like, okay, I'm got to watch this with one eye or glass of wine. It's just, you know, painful. So I suggest people, you know, watch themselves on a regular periodic basis. It depends on are you working on a particular skill? Right, and I always say, you know, watch your video and look, first of all, what did you do well? Right, it's I mean, if if you're going to be a good director to yourself, you're going to look at both what worked what didn't work. So look, what did you know well and then pick one thing to work on and work on that with, you know, just you and your camera, and then work on it and team calls or with fan friends and family, and then finally with customers. And then record yourself, so you don't have to constantly record yourself, but kind of with those periodic moments to see how am I doing with this particular skill and then as you kind of master that, then you can add on, you know, the additional skills. But most people tend to watch themselves on videog Oh and the horrible and that's it. I probably get out of it right right. It's so so ego focus and met oriented without worrying about the recipient. Before before I get to the next question that we have outlined here, actually want to go go back because you said something when you're talking about your book and looking people in the in the eye, and I had an epiphany, which I probably should have had this epiphany a long time ago, a little slow sometimes. Luckily Ethan wrote the book, so we're good there. But look me in the eye on a zoom call. I just thought about that. If you're in a live meeting and you're sitting around a conference table, you can only look at one person at a time and you need to be conscious and aware of the amount of time that you're spending with each individual in the room, because you have your stakeholders, you have the the the buying group, and it's like, okay, let me make sure I give everyone their time and due diligence. And but when you're in a zoom call, for the adept person that's really good at...

...engaging and connecting, through zoom you can look at everyone in the eye simultaneously at at the same time. Have you seen people like, because you were mentioning like the apathy? You use the word apathy. I forget what you said. It's just the apathy of people on video calls. Does that engaging person that's looking everyone the same time? Do they have an advantage on zoom because of that reason? Oh, absolutely. You know, if, first of all, everybody's having their own experience on video right, you are never taught talking to a group and in fact, even when you're speaking live, you should never be thinking about him talking to a group because it makes your presentation much more general, less specific and personal. So it will change your tone and your body language and everything if you just think about talking to one person. So you know it all. It all starts there, and then everybody, everybody feels like you're connecting with them, and that's that's a really powerful thing, because you're right. In Person We had to do the you know, make sure we hit all the different stakeholders and do a certain amount. Now we don't have an audience that is making as much eye contact as they might in person because they don't feel obligated to do so. So, from a sale standpoint or a speaker standpoint, you should be making eye contact, you know, the majority of the time and people, you know nobody's going to stare at stare at you a hundred percent of the time. They get to control their own level of eye contact. But if you're available there to make a connection when they do look up, then you know that improves your chances of building relationship. Okay, so yeah, let's let's switch gears now. In our previous interview you talked about overconfidence and you talked about not being confident enough and how they both hurt you. If you go in on a video and you're overconfident, you just go in with this this relaxed swagger, almost that at that seems uninterested and you were you were going through that. What's the Goldilock? One thing we didn't ask, though. As I watch the interview back, it was like, okay, we have overconfidence and we have not confident enough, and we know what that looks like. We don't need a description of that. How do you land in that goldilocks zone of in the middle is? Are there things that you can do to temper or to enhance your confidence level? Absolutely, and it's confidence and it's a certain type of energy. So when I talked about that over confidence, sometimes it's just yeah, I'm going to it's that determination, like I'm just going to you know, I'm comfortable here, I'm going to just be myself, which is great. I don't want you to be someone you're not. But when we start to think about being comfortable, like you said, that's when the body language gets really laid back and, you know, we start to look in attentive at our energy goes down and our voice goes down, and you really need to bring more energy to a video called just to look as attentive as you did in person, right, because the camera takes away a certain amount of energy. So you have to bring that energy and you know it's different for everybody you know, and you that Goldilocks is a great example, because what's a great energy level for one person might be too higher too low for somebody else. So the best judge of how you come across as confident and energetic as possible in that sweet spot is to record yourself and have someone you trust, a couple people you trust, look at say yeah, that's that's you, that's the you I know in person. And to do that you have to do different levels. And I like this and talk about this exercise in my book where you can you go over the top, like you imagine, you know, the most overthetop actor you can think of. I was think of like Nicolas Cage or Alpuccino. Right. It's like everything's like this right, and you just like like deliver your presentation. I tell...

...sales people this all the time. I like just just go as big as you can. And it's funny what people's idea of big is. Some people it's like okay, so what I'm like, wow, that's it seemed very different, and some people it's it's like a great level. It's like man, that is right where you need to live and it really it's interesting when they have their peers around go yeah, that's that's you man, that you need to find that energy level when you're in camera. But we are not good judges of that ourselves, and so it takes some calibrating, I guess, I would say. And to get to that state. I think you're questioned about being you know, how do we show up with the right energy? Is, you know, just like any sport or you know, it's just like actors do before performance, like you have to warm up. You the fact that most people get on video and they as soon as I hit record, they think they're going to be at their peak is such a you know, performers will laugh at that nonsense, right. I mean you got to prepare to get your peak. It's not like on and on off button, and you don't want to warm up on your audience, right. So you got to before you get on camera, where it's live or recorded, you got to be in that state so you're, you know, right there, and so that takes a little bit of time and work. Yeah, really good, and I mean you risk obviously losing attention and maybe even respect trying to warm up on your audience. For folks are listening. Of course you're probably doing if you're doing sales calls or any any video calls, there's a good chance that chorus or Gong or a similar tool might be available. oftentimes they just go straight to the cloud. You can obviously record on zoom. If you're doing recorded video messages, like with Bombomb, those obviously sit wherever those videos get stored in. Bombama just stays in your library. These videos can be watched back and I love your called you lay mean, we do judge it more harshly than anyone else does. So I love this idea of enlisting trusted others to be real with us, and if we want to be good at this, and I think we have to be good at this if we're going forward. I mean you said earlier, Julie, like you didn't expect that these, the skills and insights that you developed a decade ago would be so super relevant today. But I think they'll be even more relevant a decade from now, and so this is just something we have to get good at. So you wrote a book on sales presentations. Obviously you've touched on that a little bit already. It's kind of hard not to in these themes. I love the way all of your works all comes together. You wrote a book on it and I would love for you just to address a little bit. How do you encourage people to keep the customer in mind? How do we make this more about a maybe a conversation, than a presentation? I think most people think, okay, I've got to give this presentation. There either a handed a deck and they're just supposed to learn it and deliver it as someone taught them to deliver it. Which I love your take on that, because I have a feeling I know where that will go. And the alternative is I need to whip up some information. I'm just going to blast a bunch of information at people and then say, what do you think? Let's get right the next step. Just give us a couple high level tips on being more engaging and useful and really customer centric or customer oriented in delivering a sales presentation. Sure, sure, you know. I think you have to stop and you know, step back as a salesperson and realize that there are very few places in life where we let someone talk to us for more than two minutes at a time, right unless you're being lectured by somebody and hopefully as an adult you don't have to put up with that anymore. But it's just very rare, except when we get into presentation and then it's like holy molly, you know. So it's very different and the way people pay attention is different. So it starts right at the beginning. I think. You know if people are still sharing that. Well, here's here's my company and about us, and they're not. They're not thinking about why...

...does my customer care about this? Like every point on that customer or that company overview slide. If you don't know why you're sharing it with that particular customer, shouldn't be in there and people don't care about you anyway. Right. So starting from the place of what is what is the most interest to your customer, you know, and I think we've made some headway there. But we seem to be regressing on video, because I think people are getting very dependent on their slides again and they're reading from their slides and it wasn't okay to read from your slides in person and it's not okay to read from a video just because they're right in front of you. And that crutch often makes people who didn't mean to do that. You know, fall back on this very rote reading everything on the slide. You know, to your point, it does need to be more of a conversation. That's you know, it's proven the more the customers engage, the more likely they are to have, you know, have a good experience and to move forward in the funnel. So there's all kinds of good reasons to do that. The problem is it's really difficult on video because we don't get it's hard to have a conversation with a passive audience. So we have to work harder, we have to have more tricks up our sleeve and you know that requires some planning. You know, it never just happens. I think salespeople often think, well, you know, I'll say, Hey, I want this to be more of a conversation shit, and customers are like, blah, blah, blah, white noise. You know, they sit back and wait, you know, get their popcorn and there, you know, let you roll. So you have to break up that expectation that this is just another presentation to you know, just by getting them engaged early on and looking for ways to to interact with them and using the camera to help people feel engaged and feel like they're responsible for participating. Are there surefire questions you you talked about going off script, which is obviously the topic that we're on right now, but you mentioned this in the last interview to that you want to get people kind of off script and have them responding spontaneously, you know, almost are there sure fire questions that you could give the audience or strategies to get people to kind of go off the normal the normal script the audience that maybe isn't engaged? Yeah, I think I think it's always a good idea if you've got some previous relationship with the customer or you've had a previous meeting, just to start with. Hey, last time you said this was important, this was vital. POW, are things going in this area? You know, getting a feed anything that's of most interest to the customer right starting from that standpoint and then, you know, you may have to pivot from what you plan to do so that I can help customers be more interactive. But I would say there are some tricks to using video to get people more interactive to a lot of times people ask questions and they'll ask them as they're looking at the screen. Right's like, so what do you what are you doing in your you know, to Grow Your Business Today? And if I don't feel like you're looking at me as you say it, because remember, we're all having our individual experience, I think you're not talking to me. I think you're talking to Bob and I bet he's going to answer right. And the more people you have on a call, the more you multiply that. And that's why so many questions just go unanswered because we're staring at the screen, we're asking that image if they want to answer that question or it doesn't sound like a question, because we're so used to people not answering, we sort of tentatively throw it out there, like so, what are you doing to grow your business today? And it's like, I'm sorry, was that a question or statements or you know, if you are and this is part of you know, this goes back to acting, it's like, if your intention is I want...

...to hear what that person has to say, I want them to answer this question. That's my expectation. I'm going to ask it with that kind of determination. I'm just say so what is, what are you doing to really grow Your Business Today? And I have a whole different energy around it. I'm a look at the camera and I'm going to hold it there until you come up with something right. So enjoy the conversation that that we had today. Loved having you a part of the book and the previous interview. You know. I know you got a sneak peek at the book. Are there any particular chapters or topics that you're really interested to get out in front of everyone else? Anything that really resonated with you and human centered communication? Yeah, I mean there's a bunch of things I'm interested in. One that really I'm just personally interested in because it's our aligns with what I talked about, is the chapter that Dan Hill wrote, because he does talk about that emotional piece that's involved in sales and how we need to connect with that virtually and also about reading body language and how important that is. But you know, he also acknowledges how much more difficult that is on video and so yeah, I'm interested to hear his take on that. Awesome the one on my yead for folks for are listening Dan Hills episode. You can hear it right now. Dan Hill is a he's a PhD, he holds seven patents in the analysis of facial coding data. Really Great Guy who's actually a previous podcast guest. That's how we met him in the first place and then invited him into this book project along with you, Julie. So if you go to bombombcom slash podcast, you can check out the conversation with Dan. You can see video clips from this interview with Julie. You can check out the episode with Mario Martinez Junior Van Gresso, Morgan j Ingram, who's at three time linkedin top sales voice, probably going to be four time here pretty soon. I don't know when they announce the top sales voices. Lauren Bailey of factory and Girls Club. So many great people involved in this. We've got more interviews coming. Again. This is a series that we're doing. I think it runs through the end of September, and you can learn more about the book that we've been talking about, a Bombabcom book, and we'll learn more about all of Julie's work, including her masterclass in just a moment. But, Steve, let's make sure to ask Julie or give Julie the two opportunities that we give all of our guests at this point in the podcast. Yeah, we love for you to thank or mention someone that has had a positive impact on your life or career and then double down a brand or company that has provided an amazing customer experience. Okay, well, you know, lots of people have just touched my life and amazing ways, but I would say the person that really helped me get on the path that I'm on now is Jill Conrath, and I think most sales folks know her. She's the author of several sales books, agile selling most recently, and she reached out to me when my first book came out about eleven years ago and I really wasn't that well connected and the sales community as far as other speakers and trainers and coaches, and she invited me to this network of, you know, women sales leaders and from there I just I mean it was eye opening. I got to see what the road ahead of me might look like, because I really didn't know what my career would involve after kind of taking this step in the you know, in this direction. So that was, you know, just the start of many great friendships that have developed out of there and an incredible wealth and knowledge that I never would have stumbled upon on my own. So that that was awesome. And then that company that to the best customer. I'm sure this is not going to be the first time you've heard this, but I'd have to say Apple. You know, is this the first time...

...someone says apple? It is not, but it's usually. It's usually like you know, where someone's giving a nod to just the classics and the best, like it's Carlton's in the apples of the etc. So why do you choose apple? Well, you know, they just they make everything easy. They just they are so customer experience focused, right, and they you know, it's I had to send a watch in to get repair and they were wrong with it and if they would send me a new one or, I think, a replacement, and they were like, well, it might take, you know, five days. Well, they had it looked at, reviewed set me a new one like in a day and a half or something. So just always surprising you in a good way, which is the way you to be surprised by a company, right. Yeah, it's awesome and I love the shoutout to Jill Conrath it's so cool when people just make themselves available to help others and kind of just light the path and make introductions. Really Cool. I love that too. For people who want to follow up on this conversation, they want to learn more about your new book any of your other books, and maybe want to connect with you on Linkedin, or they want to check out what you're selling on video master class. Where some places you would send people? Julie? Yeah, all of that information is on my website at Julie Hanson dot live. You can also go directly to the selling on video master class. It's selling on VIDEOCOM and my book is on Amazon and also on my website. Awesome, and we will link up a bunch of then. For folks that are so you get the spelling right. It's Hanson Sean not s and it's julianis person, yes, dot live. Cool. We'll round up those links, as we always do. It bombmcom podcast as well. In the case that you are listening on the go, a you can hit that sixty two back button and write these things down or type a note or whatever you do with your phone or wherever you're listening, but we also round them up at Bombcom podcast. Thank you all for listening. Julie, thank you so much for joining us again in conversation this it's fantastic. Thanks, guys. Actually, too often you're overwhelmed by the amount of noise in your inbox and slack in your linkedin messages and every other channel and medium you use. And guess what, so are your prospects, customers, employees and recruits. Digital pollution is the problem. Human centered communication is a solution. From the authors of the best selling book rehumanize Your Business, comes a new book, Human Centered Communication, a business case against digital pollution, featuring expert insights from leaders at companies like sales force, hub spot and Van Gresso, giving you proven methods to earn attention, build trust, create engagement and enhanced reputation, helping you connect and communicate more effectively with the people who matter most. Learn more and pre order your copy today at Bombombcom. Book and ask about special packages for your team, your company or your community by emailing book at Bombombcom, visit Bombombcom, book or email. Book at Bombombcom. Thanks for listening to the customer experience podcast. Remember, the single most important thing you can do today is to create and deliver a better experience for your customers. Continue Learning the latest strategies and tactics by subscribing right now in your favorite podcast player, or visit Bombombcom podcast.

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